Evidence of meeting #13 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
They can read the newspapers. I don't have to say anything.
However, coming here, my colleague here would like to propose a motion, and I hope we do get unanimous consent for that.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Wajid Khan Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Mr. Chair, if I may propose a motion to seek unanimous consent—
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Wajid Khan Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Hear me out. If you don't agree, don't agree.
I would move, in light of the importance of Pakistan and the security of the forthcoming elections, that the committee invite departmental officials and other experts to provide analysis on the situation in Pakistan following the general election in Pakistan.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Wajid Khan Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Following the general election, which is February 18, we invite them to come back here and—
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Okay. You're basically just asking that after the election takes place we have input from the department again—
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC
Mr. Chair, I would just like to ask one question. Are we not hearing from guests now? According to the rules, is this the time to make a motion?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
It is in order. If the motion is on the subject matter that is being discussed, a motion can come right off the floor. This isn't the same kind of motion that would be brought up for the 48-hour.... But you need unanimous consent to do that.
We will be on a break week, and because of the timelines we obviously wouldn't be able to put forward a motion for 48 hours and get it through committee business, because it would appear way down on the order list on the agenda.
So it is in order, and basically it's just asking for a response after the election. I guess we have to have some debate. If this is a problem motion, we won't allow it.
Mr. Chan.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Yes, that's right.
I'm going to ask if we have unanimous consent for this motion.
4:35 p.m.
Some hon. members
No.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Wajid Khan Conservative Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's disappointing that on one hand we show great concern about that region and its stability. We talk about central Asian pipelines without mentioning Iranian pipelines or India and Pakistan. We talk about our mission in Afghanistan. We talk about border security. We talk about deployment. We talk about terrorism. Yet for some reason my colleagues across the way do not want to acquaint themselves or inform themselves, through experts and others, and will base their judgments and questions, I'm sorry to say, on superficial information--like my colleague here said, “40 million Taliban”. That is not even the total population of Afghanistan, 40 million. Somebody mentioned about the nuclear aspect of Pakistan—it's a risk, they read in some headline in some newspaper over there. There are command-and-control centres in place. Everything is absolutely secure.
We need to get educated on this, and if there is not interest in that, I guess it basically will put this committee at a disadvantage to understand. This is an opportunity to bring in experts who can educate this committee on Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the whole region: some real experts, not just NGOs, but people who know, people who have acted with them and who understand the situation. So when the debate happens or otherwise, we as a country and as parliamentarians representing our constituents have the proper knowledge and insight. If they don't want it, it's up to them, but I have to say that I'm really disappointed.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
February 12th, 2008 / 4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
I would like to welcome our guests first, but I certainly also want to return the volley from my honourable colleague. I am speaking as an individual. If I refuse to support the Conservative party's motion—who like to lecture us, which is always very amusing—it is not about the substance but mostly about the form. I feel that eventually, we will have to ask the question again and re-evaluate the situation. We have no lesson to learn from our colleagues opposite.
That said, gentlemen, you too have surely read Michèle Ouimet's article on the situation in Pakistan. I have read it, and, as I listened to you earlier, I got the impression that she did not go to the same place as you did. She finds things in Pakistan very troubling. But you say that poverty is not such a big problem and the education of girls is not going too badly.
Lastly, I wonder if the Pakistani government is not speaking out of both sides of its mouth. Internally, the discourse seems to be pro-Islamic in order to get the people on their side. Outside, the discourse is more conciliatory in order to win support from the Government of Canada, for example.
4:35 p.m.
Director General, Asia South and Pacific Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I can just say that whether they are speaking out of both sides of their mouth or not, we hold them to account to the goals that we have for that country.
It's certainly within Canada's right, given our involvement in the region, to insist on a certain kind of behaviour and certain types of actions by the Government of Pakistan. We have no hesitation in doing that.
We're not naive, but at the same time we're not going to back down on the things that we want Pakistan to do. So we're going to continue to insist on a greater effort on the security side, and not just insist without being willing to help--because we are ready to help with border management in this very practical and technical way. But also we will insist on a return to democracy, which we think in the longer term will both complement security and put them on the right path in that regard and also open up greater possibilities for development.
I'm not going to make judgments on the veracity of their own plans and their intentions. I have no way of knowing, but we have our expectations, and we're going to be consistent in communicating those to the Government of Pakistan.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC
I have another question; I am no expert in the area. Do you really think that it is possible to have a democratic election in a country where people are killed for owning a record store? I cannot imagine how that can be possible.
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Asia South and Pacific Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I must say, in my experience it always looks somewhat hopeless when a country is going through a transition.
Forgive me for going off Pakistan for just a moment, but I spent a lot of time in Indonesia both before and after the great democratic change that occurred there. It looked hopeless for a long time. Very brave people fought very hard for the democracy that they eventually won. But they went through some very, very dark times, which involved violence and involved people sacrificing their lives in order to achieve that.
I think some of the references to positive signs among the judiciary and the fact that the media is taking a very critical view of negative developments, as they perceive them, are good signs. They are signs that there's a spirit of democracy there in the Pakistani people. They are making demands of their own leaders. So while we need to work hard to make sure that their commitment is sincere and to help them with the technical aspects of getting back on the path to democracy, don't give up hope, because there are a lot of people in Pakistan who have high hope, and we ought to be standing with them to make sure they realize the dreams that they have for their country.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB
Irrespective of the fact that the Bloc refused to put our motion through, which was after the elections--because the elections are one of the steps forward in what we have been demanding, which is stability in the region.... Unless there is stability in the region, we will have turmoil and instability in the whole of that region. Pakistan by itself is not just Pakistan; it's the whole region. I would like to advise you that we will be putting a motion for you people to come forward after the elections to come and give us--
4:40 p.m.
An hon. member
What election?
