Evidence of meeting #2 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was study.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
What Canadian issues Canada should champion to stop the crisis....There are two initiatives: one to stop the crisis and the other one to look at the public and private funding investments and what initiatives can be done to affect that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
There's still a problem here. The problem is this. Read those two again. You have said “what we can do to stop the crisis”. That's the problem I have had with that motion all along. What this motion has said is specific to the investments. Here it says “could put forward to set regulations for such investments”. That is the problem with it, Mr. Martin. The first recommendation you have listed there would have to be taken out.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
How about this: “what Canadian issues Canada should champion to stop the crisis, including examining what public and private funds are currently invested in Sudan, and explore ways we could put forward and set regulations for such investments and report in the House on its findings”.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
It's still mixing it. You're saying how is Canada going to stop the crisis? We're having people here on finance. That's what this motion is about. It's about investments. I can agree, but that might be another study. But in order to keep this motion in the integrity in which it was presented, the first part of that motion would have to be taken out.
Mr. Dewar, are you in agreement with that?
Here's the problem politically. We all know there's a crisis, but the problem I have with this motion isn't the political problem. What I have with this motion is keeping it specific to the public funding and investments. That's what Mr. Dewar's motion did. So I would say, Mr. Martin, that you would have to take that crisis part out, how Canada is going to solve the crisis in Sudan. If you want to put in “recognizing the crisis”, or whatever, “how are our investments going to effect change?”, you're asking the finance department to come and say how we can solve a crisis in Sudan.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
We are looking at other groups too. Other departments are included.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
That's fine. We can look at it, but you have to wordsmith the first part.
Conservative
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Chair, the way the motion was originally written, which was actually the motion that was put before this committee and passed, I might add, was to acknowledge there is a concern about the crisis in Darfur, and change it to Sudan. Then it listed what could be looked at and addressed and was focused on investment.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
What might come out of that, one would deduce, is that one of the ways of dealing with the crisis is investment or not. That's why you do a study.
I'm wondering if we go back to the original motion and substitute Sudan for Darfur, take out the all-parliamentary group and add whatever it was, NGOs and civil society, if that would be acceptable to Mr. Martin. It brings back the spirit of what he wanted. It has to go beyond Darfur. It's Sudan in general. It deals with--
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Yes, and it's a focus on experts and NGOs, etc., and it reports its findings to the House. In other words, what I'm suggesting is to substitute Sudan for Darfur and take out the all-party parliamentary group and add the NGOs and civil society and take it from there.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
The other aspect of this is dealing with the solutions that are required to deal with the genocide in the country. I don't have an issue with all-party at all. You and I know that I'm happy to have it in there, but it would be a shame for us not to include the other aspects, because other aspects have to be dealt with to deal with the larger conflagration that is about to occur in that country.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Again, for those two meetings we'd deal with that and we'd never get around to doing the study on the financing.
The point of this motion.... My responsibility here is to say what the motion is asking for when these motions are brought forward. The concern of the government was that it's more finance than foreign affairs. Well, we've got to the point where I've ruled that although it may have been better answered at finance, we're going to see if we can get those departments to come and clearly indicate the types of investments going on there and how perhaps certain changes might come out of what we see going on there--but this now goes a different step; it's not finance's any more.
Liberal
Keith Martin Liberal Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC
If it's the will of the committee not to go there, then it's the will of the committee not to go there. Then we have to go back to the original and just vote on it and move forward, right? If it's the will of the committee not to deal with the issue of other solutions to deal with this crisis, then that's the will of the committee, and so be it. We go back to Mr. Dewar's original motion with the minor amendments that he said, and we vote on it. I have to take out all that other stuff, because if you, Mr. Chair, rule that it's out of order, then I have to come back with another motion.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
It would be in order to present that motion at a later date, but it would be out of order in amending Mr. Dewar's motion, so if you withdraw your....
Liberal
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
To be clear here, the changes would be as follows: “That pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, as part of its ongoing concern for the crisis in Sudan”--that's a change--“in consideration of issues of CSR, invite officials from DFAIT, CIDA, and other relevant departments, as well as non-governmental organizations and civil society, to appear before the committee to share their knowledge about what Canadian public and private funds are currently invested in Sudan and to explore legislative initiatives the Canadian government could put forward to set regulations for such investments, and report to the House on its findings.”
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
We have a withdrawal on the amendment; I still have Mr. Goldring and Madame Barbot on the speakers list. Are you okay?
You're all right.
(Motion as amended agreed to)
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Lunch is available there, and we have another 16 motions. I suggest we recess for five minutes. Nobody leaves the room; grab some lunch.
We'll recess for five minutes.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
The next motion on the paper is that pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development conduct a study of the violent response of the Burmese regime to democratic movements in Burma.
I'll invite Mr. Goldring to speak to his motion, please.
Conservative
Peter Goldring Conservative Edmonton East, AB
Thank you very much.
It's very apparent there has been an escalation in violence and repression of democratic actions in Burma, and it's all been very topical. Historically, in 1988 the citizens of Burma rose up nation-wide, and since then they've basically been under a military-led government that has consistently participated in violent repression of democratic ideals and freedoms.
In light of our past investigation and the study on democracy, I believe this is very well suited to fit in with it and Canada's overall support for freedom, democracy, and human rights in the rule of law as an expression of our values of foreign policy. It's very appropriate for us to do this investigation, this study, and I will certainly be seeking support for that premise.
Conservative
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I wonder if I can intervene for a moment on the business in front of us. Before we go on to debate this motion, I want to make sure we are going to be able to schedule a time for this committee to meet on the estimates, which kind of fell off the table. I'm extremely concerned that we're not going to get to them.