Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 10th, 2009

[Bruce Hirst]

This year it's $102 million.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

What did it receive last year?

[Bruce Hirst]

I don't have that figure on hand. It was $130 million from 2001-02 until the present.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Is the budget this year less than it was in previous years?

[Bruce Hirst]

It's more than it was.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But it's not comparative to what we've seen in Defence, is my point.

My point is a simple one. Through you, Chair, to the minister, we see a very large increase in Defence, but we're not seeing similar increases in Foreign Affairs. I would submit to you that's not quite where we thought we were going in the mission in terms of putting more emphasis on diplomacy and development, but that's simply my opinion.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

If you don't mind, I'll have the deputy minister answer that question. There is some concern from Mr. Dewar that we're not spending enough money.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's on development and diplomacy.

[Leonard Edwards]

Mr. Chairman, I can help elaborate a bit.

The amounts that Mr. Hirst has been providing, of course, are not moneys that are coming to the department as part of the budget process; they are in fact departmental funds that are being allocated. To be absolutely sure on the language, Mr. Dewar, $102 million of departmental funds is being spent this year.

With respect to funding outside the military costs, you have to remember, of course, that includes development costs. You may also remember that the amounts this government has put into Afghanistan increased very substantially as a result of decisions last year to move up to almost $1.9 billion from previous costs of, I think, around $0.2 billion. When you look at that measure, you can see a fairly substantial increase of almost 50%.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I was just comparing it to Defence. There's more being put into Defence in this year's allocation in the estimates than there is into your department.

Am I out of time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have very little time.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I was just going to answer the counter-narcotics question, unless my colleague wants to continue.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

No, my point was simple on the counter-narcotics. I didn't see it in here and I'm not seeing it in the line items. I guess what we're seeing is that it seems the military is now going to be given this role. That concerns me. I just want to know if this concerns you as well.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

No, I don't want to say to you that it doesn't concern me. It does fall, of course, with Peter MacKay. Therefore, there has been a decision taken. International security forces, in concert with the Afghans, can carry out direct operations against narcotic facilities as well as facilitators.

From 2007 to 2011, if I'm not mistaken, Canada has allocated $55 million towards counter-narcotics projects through Canadian priorities, including, of course, building national institutions, law enforcement capacity-building, and enhancing Pakistan-Afghanistan border cooperation. Those are things we're doing that we believe will help eradicate narcotics in that country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Goldring.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Minister, Mr. Hirst, and Mr. Edwards, for appearing here today.

Canada's re-engagement in the Americas certainly is a positive step. It's being very well received by almost all countries of the region. It certainly is a direct contrast to years past, where Canada has been seen as though it has been disengaging from the region.

Particularly now, with the evolving geopolitical landscape of the region, it even becomes a strategic imperative. Economically, the area is being viewed by other world powers too, whether it's the European Union or the two Chinas or other Asian countries, so there's a reason to participate. China has a tax-free port on St. Lucia, which is indicative of their interests throughout the area.

One of the countries in the region, though, where certainly Canada makes one of its preeminent efforts to help, is Haiti. Haiti is a very big priority in the region, of course, not just for humanitarian reasons but also as a necessity, and politically and economically as an imperative, as a sign of Canada's whole-of-government engagement throughout the region, to participate not just politically and economically in the region but also in a humanitarian way. It's a kind of symbol for that.

Mr. Minister, I'm wondering if you could tell us what steps are being taken with the efforts to help Haiti evolve politically and stability-wise.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you.

Of course, I think Canada is quite clear that we've made a long-term commitment to Haiti, which is at the heart of Canada's vocation in the Americas, so to speak. We're directing unprecedented financial and political resources towards ensuring the success of international efforts in Haiti, with $555 million between 2006 and 2011 going to the poorest country in the Americas.

As a matter of fact, and I've mentioned this before, it's our single largest investment in the Americas and our second worldwide in terms of our contribution. After the United States, we're the second-largest donor in Haiti.

Our involvement is based on strong national interests, security, and values, and basically reflects the close cultural and demographic links between Canada and that country.

We've participated and are participating, of course, in the UN stabilization mission in Haiti, with a current contribution of four Canadian Forces personnel, 96 civilian police officers, and eight corrections experts. We're a leader in security system reform in Haiti.

As you know, I think, probably going back to the larger picture, the Prime Minister did name a Minister of State for the Americas. There's a renewed engagement on the part of the government to do work with the Americas. Minister Kent has been extremely active.

In our earlier discussions, we alluded to the free trade agreements with both Colombia and Peru. Minister Day is very active there as well.

We expect that all of the efforts Canada is putting into the Americas are certainly going to help us in the short, the medium, and the long terms.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have a few more minutes.

[Peter Goldring, Conservative, Edmonton East, AB]

As part of this re-engagement in the region, what type of interaction are we taking with associations like the Organization of American States, and CARICOM? I believe there's an east Caribbean association too.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

I mentioned before that we're looking at democracy and securing the hemisphere security. We want to make this more prosperous, so we are working very seriously with the organizations that are in place. We are looking forward to the April summit that is to take place and making sure that Canadian interests in this area are advancing not only our interests but, of course, the hemispheric interests.

We are reinforcing partnerships with countries in the area, not necessarily limited to Brazil, Chile, Peru, or Columbia. Minister Kent is working extremely hard with these countries to develop good relationships. This is something that is a requirement, but it's long overdue.

The Prime Minister's visit about two years ago sort of set the trend for what we want to be able to do. Here's part of Canada's foreign policy, such as the Arctic was, that has been neglected for a number of years and needs to be shored up and looked at seriously. This is exactly the commitment the Prime Minister and this government are making.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

For a very quick question we have Mr. Patry.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you very much.

I have two questions.

Mr. Minister, in last November's Speech from the Throne, the government committed to creating a new democracy, a promotion agency, as below:

Canada's international assistance will continue to increase and will be spent more effectively in the promotion of development goals. A new, non-partisan democracy promotion agency will also be established to support the peaceful transition to democracy in repressive countries and help emerging democracies build strong institutions.

I am wondering what the status of this is now. Is it on hold, and what are you budgeting for it?

The Secretary of State, Mrs. Clinton, in her opening statements to the U.S. Senate foreign relations committee, referred to a smart power approach in which diplomacy will be the vanguard of foreign policy. Professor Haslam, from the Ottawa University school of international affairs here in Ottawa, defines smart power as the idea that military power is not sufficient to address the world's most pressing global threats. He deploys a full range of economic, cultural, political, and intelligence assets in the foreign policy tool box, with diplomacy taking the lead.

As head of Canadian diplomacy, you know very well that there is no military solution in Afghanistan. President Obama recently requested the help of Iran in the search for a solution in Afghanistan, and Canada is seeking international support in its bid for a seat on the UN Security Council for 2011 and 2012. Mr. Minister, do you not think it is time for Canada to improve its international image by calling for and hosting an international diplomatic conference on the Afghan issue, including the participation of Russia, China and Iran?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thanks, Mr. Patry.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Patry.

I would like to answer the question on the organization that promotes democracy.

I'll just tell you that Minister Fletcher is the one who has the lead on that file. He is working quite actively on that file. So that is something we'll probably have the opportunity of discussing at a later date here around the table. It is just to reassure you that there is work being done on that. Hopefully it is done in much the same way as at the IDRC, which is I think not only world renowned but certainly something of whose work Canada can be extremely proud. We have been doing this for close to 40 years now, 38 years.

So that is something we can look forward to. Hopefully the establishment of this agency—in terms of democracy, freedom, empowering, along of course with human rights and being able to empower citizens—is something that is so very Canadian that we would certainly want to make that promotion. That is something we are very keen on doing, and so I invite you to follow us on that one.

For the smart power definition, like you I was intrigued by Senator—at the time and now Foreign Secretary—Clinton's take on smart power. It is an interesting notion. I would believe that that is starting from the principle that the United States of America can't be everything for everybody at the same time.

In that purview we'll be looking to more bilateral, in some cases, more multilateral opportunities to work with like-minded countries in pursuing policy objectives that are common to all countries. In that view, I'm looking forward to working with Mrs. Clinton, as well as the new administration in that regard.

You ended your question by talking about Afghanistan. We are deeply involved, as you know. We are in constant contact with our partners and allies on that. Whether contacts be through my colleague the Minister of National Defence and his colleagues at NATO or whether they be through diplomatic channels, I think Canada can be looked at as being a solid ally, somebody who is delivering exactly what it has mentioned it would do.

We are quite happy with the pursuit of the policy as it is. If there need to be any corrections or changes in the course of action, of course Parliament will be consulted on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Minister, and again thank you for coming today.

Although this committee changes every Parliament, in the last Parliament we did a number of reports that I would encourage you to resource when you have the opportunity to do that. We did extensive work on democratic development, which I know Minister Fletcher is using as a resource, but also there was our Afghanistan report at the close of Parliament last year, tabled this summer. So much of your testimony today related to some of those reports that we have already been involved in drafting.

I thank you for being here, for your willingness, and also for your willingness to come back.