Foreign Affairs Committee on May 25th, 2009

[Bruce Hirst]

This is part of the strategic review that has been taking place across the government in all departments.

Ours was done about two years ago. We have identified, in fact, $87.3 million in funding that has been taken out of the department for 2009-10. These are for such things as reorganizing ourselves within Ottawa in order to focus more on our overseas operations. We're consolidating some overseas operations and streamlining administrative and IT support to our missions abroad in order to reuse this funding for other purposes, including opening some missions abroad and putting more people overseas. In the next two years we're going to be putting an additional 180 people overseas to strengthen our missions.

This is why that amount is being taken out, but we're getting about $60 million this year in further funding to strengthen our missions overseas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have some more time, Mr. Patry or Mr. Rae.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I'll come back on this question of the relative proportions that we have serving in Canada versus how many we have serving overseas. I don't mean this as a trick question; you may want some time. You may want to just give me a written answer later on.

I'd like to know how our relative proportion compares with the British, the Americans, the French, the Germans--that is, with missions of countries that are members of the G8. How do we compare in terms of the number of people we have serving at home compared to the number we have serving abroad? Can you give me an answer to that, Mr. Hirst?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

We'll give you a written response, since you're asking us to compare ourselves to other allies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

We'll move to Madame Deschamps.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I will be sharing my time with my colleague.

I want to take this opportunity to put a question to my honourable Minister of Foreign Affairs that I already put to him in the House a few weeks ago.

The answer you gave me on that occasion frustrated me somewhat. You told me that I needed by notes to address you. I don't have any notes here today and I'm going to put the question to you again.

I'd like to know how you set priorities for international aid. The minister removed a few countries from her list, including certain African countries which in my opinion still need a great deal of assistance from Canada. And yet, you targeted Colombia and Peru, among others.

Is there a link between your trade agreements and the economic values of your government?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

First I'd like to say that if my statements offended you, I apologize.

These decisions are made jointly with my colleague, the Minister responsible for International Development, according to certain values we share. After that, a determination is made. Of course, this is always done according to our means. With regard to the Americas, countries like Bolivia, Colombia, Haiti, Honduras and Peru are targeted. In Asia, there's Afghanistan, as we know very well, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan and Vietnam. In eastern Europe, we're talking about Ukraine, and then sub-Saharan Africa with Ethiopia, Ghana, Mali and so forth. These lists are updated regularly and constantly by my colleague responsible for the Canadian International Development Agency.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

Madame Lalonde.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Good afternoon and welcome, Minister. I'm welcoming you whereas I'm the one who's just come back.

As has been pointed out, the Canadian International Development Agency and Minister Oda changed their priorities and concentrated bilateral subsidies in new countries. She certainly didn't act alone. How can you explain the change in priorities as concerns francophone African countries? This question is extremely important because in Quebec, NGOs have performed very well in that area and work in francophone countries. But now, they're cut off from these countries and their expertise is no longer useful. Does this mean that the international francophonie is being abandoned?

My second question is with regard to Mr. Abdelrazik and Mr. Khadr as well as Ms. Nathalie Morin, who is not suspected of anything and who wants to return to Canada. She's in Saudi Arabia, sequestered with her three children by Saeed al-Bachir. I've been working with her for a year now and I find that the embassy has not helped her at all. At one point, the embassy even said that it was unable to welcome Ms. Morin and her children even though the husband was prepared to drive them to the embassy and let them go. Our embassies cost us quite a lot of money, but I'm wondering how Canadian citizens facing problems abroad can be sure that their country, through these embassies, will help them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Ms. Lalonde.

Mr. Cannon.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you for those two questions, Ms. Lalonde.

First of all, let me reassure you by stating that there is no plot, no particular strategy to isolate francophone countries. On the contrary the programs that are generally available are also available in the case of francophone African countries. A realignment of priorities does indeed affect certain countries, but there is no withdrawal being planned such as the one you've described. That is not the case. The Government of Canada continues to support organizations that provide excellent services in these places. I would point out, however, that this question really should be put to my colleague.

You mentioned cases related to consulates, and I can tell you that the Government of Canada regularly helps men and women who are experiencing difficulties in faraway countries. We give them advice and we make sure they are being well treated.

With regard to Ms. Morin, she's involved in a complicated family conflict. Consular officers advised her that she and the father of her children could settle the question of child custody using the legal means available in Saudi Arabia in order for it to be possible to return the children to Canada. The department has provided considerable consular assistance to Ms. Morin since 2003. Among other things, it made arrangements for her return to Canada in September 2003 and in October 2006. Consular officers continue to provide her with help. Since her voluntary return to Saudi Arabia in 2006, officers have continued to help her. However the assistance they can provide is limited by the laws of Saudi Arabia. With the help of Saudi representatives, we are attempting to help Ms. Morin and her husband come to an agreement. Our department's travel advisories do list some advice on exit requirements in Saudi Arabia. We recommend that people follow that procedure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Ms. Lalonde, you have two minutes left.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I've heard this answer from various sources, but it doesn't take into account the fact that Nathalie has rights. Moreover, she and her partner are not married, but that's another story. Nathalie wants to come back with her children. She's not refusing to let Saeed have custody, but she wants to come back. She needs help.

Minister I was hoping that you could do something so that she can come back. What you said does not take into account the fact that she's being mistreated as are the children. The charter allows her to return. We've also said this—and I believe it—in the cases of Mr. Abdelrazik and Mr. Kadhr, who are under suspicion. In their cases as well, there may be many things that could be done to eliminate this suspicion. I've also been told that you, Minister, have evidence, that is a photograph showing Mr. Kadhr buried when he was made prisoner, which would exonerate him.

Whatever the case may be, what I want to tell you is that Nathalie is not under any suspicion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Ms. Lalonde.

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Ms. Lalonde, if there are formal accusations regarding the photos or anything else of this nature, I would invite you to... You say there are suspicions or that there may be some appearance of... I can tell you that I've never seen any. If you have information, I urge you to table it here, before the members of the committee, or to put it forward.

This file is worrisome and I even urged you to come to my department to meet the officials so that you could see all the work that they've done. You're telling me there have been accusations of mistreatment. It's strange, but every time we've confronted Ms. Morin, have sent her resources, both from the department and from third parties in order to find out whether or not she's been mistreated, there's been no evidence to that effect. We do not have any such evidence.

Let me finish, Ms. Lalonde. Our door is always open for constructive dialogue. If there is any information, if there's anything that could help us achieve progress on this file, I'm prepared to help you. But every time something's put forward, it seems as if we take one step forward and two steps back, because this information is not corroborated, it is not confirmed. So that bothers me a bit. I would dearly love to be able to do something, but if every time we make a move, the information is not clear, it is unfounded, we run into problems.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I will move to Mr. Obhrai.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

There are two questions I will ask you before, I am sure, my other colleagues ask.

One question, of course, was the question I debated yesterday with Paul and the Liberal critic, Bob Rae, on CTV about the situation in Pakistan. You rightly answered the question in the House. Pakistan is a very important player. Stability in Pakistan will, of course, bring stability into Afghanistan, which is our foreign affairs priority.

So I would like you to elaborate on the situation with reference to Pakistan, specifically whether we are going to be lifting the arms embargo on Pakistan or not. Would you like to clarify that position, Minister?

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Pontiac, QC]

Yes, thank you.

I just want to be able to point out, in addition to what I mentioned in the House this afternoon, particularly with reference to admitting Pakistan as a member of the military training assistance program, which will allow Pakistani officers to access Canadian military training courses and techniques, there is that question that's haunting.... We'll make it very clear that Canada's policy regarding military exports to Pakistan, announced in 1998, remains unchanged. I think that has to be clearly identified as a position of this government.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Minister, thank you very much for making that very clear.

Now I'll go to my second point. I was actually quite surprised and shocked to hear the opposition had refused to pair with you and go to Haiti.

[An hon. member]

On a point of order—

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Haiti is one of our—

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

On a matter of—

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Why? It is my turn to speak now, so let me finish.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

No, no, no.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

No, no, no, afterwards. You had your turn.