Evidence of meeting #20 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was counsellor.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
I guess the major concern I have is the lack of consultation. For example, there is an involvement with the EDC and the CPP in your bill. Did you consult with them?
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Could you give us a quick summary of where they were coming from?
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
The summary of the CPP intervention was that they already have fairly significant corporate social responsibility standards, and so, in their view, this was not necessary. They also had a constitutional issue as to whether this bill amends the Canada Pension Plan legislation. And if it amends the Canada Pension Plan legislation, do you require two-thirds of provincial consent?
That was the thrust of their concern.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Did you consult any developing country governments or their ambassadors?
Liberal
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Well, this is a pretty serious issue, where we're talking about—
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
It's a very serious issue, so your government should have actually done something.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Indeed, that's the whole point: the government has done something, and the reflection of the comments that you just gave us right now with respect to the comments back to you by EDC reflect that.
EDC and CPP already have responsibilities. They have corporate responsibilities, in your words that you just gave to us. The government has taken the action that it has taken, and then you decide that you're just going to say, well, the action that the government has undertaken could be overtaken by a whimsical Prime Minister. I think maybe we need a little bit more depth than that.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
With greatest respect, Mr. Abbott, if you listen to my deconstruction of the government's response, which I outlined, not only is it a prerogative that the Prime Minister appoint and not appoint, as the case may be, to do a pre-consultation of an entity that the round table said was an inappropriate entity to consult, to issue recommendations that have no force and effect, and to get the consent of the corporation prior to conducting an investigation; you start to say to yourself, well, really, what kind of response was this?
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
If the companies were to respond in an inappropriate way to exactly that direction, wouldn't they be the same companies that then would simply pull up stakes and move jurisdiction and carry on their business outside of Canada?
Conservative
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
I don't know that it's a probability, but it is a possibility. Then you have to say to yourself, well, it would be a regrettable loss of the company, but on the other hand, there are certain things that you cannot do.
If in fact an allegation is made and the company does not consent, are you prepared, as a Canadian, to live with that?
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
You see, I don't happen to subscribe to your very dismal view of the Canadian companies. I really don't.
Liberal
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Okay, then what is the problem here? Please define the problem.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Well, there is a huge number of NGOs in particular, but others as well, who are saying that Canada has a corporate social responsibility problem, including your government.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
No. The point I'm making with your response is that it's wholly inadequate. In fact, it's possibly even misleading.
Conservative
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McKay, thank you for being here.
I am not one who subscribes to the fact that sarcasm is a method of conveying one's goodwill, and I'm afraid that the vinegar here is not helpful.
I would like to follow up on something that Mr. Rae was actually asking, about how this is going to fit with investments that are coming from the Canadian government. I've already received correspondence from CPP that says: “Our mandate is to maximize investment returns without undue risk to help sustain the CPP for the benefit of $17 million Canadian contributors and beneficiaries.”
They've also outlined in their communications the kinds of companies that they do invest in: Dover Corporation, Exxon Mobil, Massey Energy Corp, Ultra Petroleum Corp, Barrick Gold, Chevron.... There are any number of them listed in this. So they are doing their due diligence already.
I just want to read my favourite magazine, The Economist: “Foreign investment helps countries not only by applying new technology but also by reorganising the way people work and by keeping an eye on costs.”
So we're seeing investments in countries where they're providing jobs, providing opportunities, and providing for governments to come forward as well. When we see this combination of concern from the CPP Investment Board, which is asking wholeheartedly to be removed from this bill, how do you respond, then, to Canadians who are looking for return on this investment to secure their CPP for the future?
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
I think if you ask Canadians whether their return on CPP was dependent upon a corporation or corporations that have serious CSR issues, they might express a concern. I don't think that's a sarcastic response.
Conservative
Lois Brown Conservative Newmarket—Aurora, ON
And yet CPP has already outlined in their Report on Responsible Investing that—
Liberal
