Evidence of meeting #34 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director General, South America, Americas, Geographic Programs Branch, Canadian International Development Agency
That's right. In the...
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
A few years back, I followed the misfortunes of Talisman, a company you probably remember. The issue was debated in the House of Commons many times. It was probably connected in some way with the department of Minister Axworthy.
In one of the paragraphs on the second page, Mr. MacLennan, you talk about the absence of solid institutions, and one of the last sentences in that paragraph reads, " Finally, in some countries revenues from minerais, oil, and gas have been used as a means of financing conflict." That is exactly what Sudan was doing at the time using oil revenue. It rekindled the war in the south, which was coming to an end because there were not enough soldiers.
In cases like that, there is nothing CIDA can do. Even if you approach the government and tell it that taking revenue from oil that is extracted by a Canadian company makes no sense, it may not listen to anything you have to say. There is nothing you can do to the company and you leave it.
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
You're right in what you say. CIDA's role is not to handle complaints against Canadian companies. That is clear.
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
However, CIDA's role is really to work within the framework of development plans in developing countries. Right now we are in Sudan. We are working with the country to determine exactly where CIDA can help. We are not active in the natural resources management sector in every country. Often we are involved in education and food security. It may be health and education. Our programs mesh with the country's development plan. We're not necessarily active everywhere.
Bloc
Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
In essence, you would be in a very good position to see the positive effects of this Act if it were to be enforced.
The answer is yes.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I'd like to ask two quick questions, one of them purely out of curiosity. Did you take part in the comprehensive round table consultation?
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
Bloc
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
Yes, they were primarily involved in the report.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
You were involved in the report that came out of that process. You're telling me that in addition, you organized round tables last July.
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
In that case, too, it was about corporate social responsibility. The participants were probably the same, that is, members of civil society, the private sector and industry. What was the goal? Did a report come out of those consultations? Did anything come out of it that we can consult?
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
Those consultations were requested by the Minister of International Cooperation.
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
It was to engage in dialogue with companies and non-governmental organizations, respectively, and see how CIDA could implement its part of the Corporate Social Responsibility Strategy. In my testimony, I explained how CIDA could help developing countries create agencies, institutions, regulations and so on in order to better manage their natural resources. It was a question of getting the viewpoint of Canadian companies that operate in those countries and of non-governmental organizations that are actively involved in this area.
Bloc
Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Does CIDA provide funds to mining companies through programs?
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
No, not to my knowledge.
Director General, South America, Americas, Geographic Programs Branch, Canadian International Development Agency
Our role is to help developing countries, that is, national, local or regional governments, communities, civil society and so on in a context of decentralization. That is what's happening in Latin America and elsewhere. We are working with them and helping make sure that they are able to hold accountable companies from all over the world that are working in their country. It's being done within the framework of the sovereignty of their own country, their own regulations. Our goal is to work with the host country and the full cast of players.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Merci beaucoup. We're out of time.
We'll go to Mr. Abbott and Ms. Brown.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you.
I want to make sure I leave proper time for Ms. Brown.
Mr. MacLennan, I didn't quite catch the wording that Madame Lalonde gave you in that question. Did I hear you say that as director general of CIDA you agree that Bill C-300 would be a good bill?
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
No, I did not say that. I said very clearly that the bill does not have a direct bearing on the activities of CIDA. My understanding is that the bill does not apply in any way to the activities that CIDA is currently undertaking within the CSR strategy.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
I'm very glad I gave you that opportunity.
The one thing I must say is that as parliamentary secretary to the minister, I am a little surprised at one of the paragraphs in your presentation where it says:
In the absence of strong institutions, natural resources such as minerals, oil and gas can become a “curse”. The “curse” can lead to a number of problems including....
And you went through the problems.
I wonder if upon reflection you might want to reconsider the word “curse”. Don't you think it's somewhat inflammatory that you are taking that position? I would have expected that from an NGO that has been on the scene and has witnessed certain things. That testimony has come to this committee. But in this instance, I'm frankly shocked that you would use the word “curse” for that. It may be in the common lexicon, but upon reflection I wonder if you, as director general, would like to reconsider its use.
Director General, Thematic and Sectoral Policy Directorate, Canadian International Development Agency
The use of the word “curse” is actually in quotation marks. It's meant to refer to a specific debate within the development community as to the potential problems with resource extraction. My colleague Bill Singleton can speak more appropriately to the exact source and components of that debate.