Evidence of meeting #36 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was issues.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jean Guilbeault  Member of the Board of Directors, Rights & Democracy
Rémy M. Beauregard  President and Chief Executive Officer, Rights & Democracy
Marie-France Cloutier  Director, Administration and Resources, Rights & Democracy
Razmik Panossian  Director, Policy, Programmes and Planning, Rights & Democracy
Fraser Reilly-King  Coordinator, Halifax Initiative Coalition
Amanda Sussman  Policy Advisor, Plan Canada

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

In our second hour this morning we will consider the 2010 Group of Eight summit that Canada will host next summer in Ontario.

We will hear from the Halifax Initiative Coalition. We welcome back Fraser Reilly-King, the coordinator. This is not the first time he has appeared before our committee. Sharing the panel with him, from Plan Canada, is Amanda Sussman, policy advisor.

I understand you have an opening statement and then we'll proceed to the rounds of questioning. Welcome to the foreign affairs and international development committee.

Go ahead.

October 29th, 2009 / 10 a.m.

Fraser Reilly-King Coordinator, Halifax Initiative Coalition

Thank you very much for inviting us to appear before the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development to discuss issues related to next year's what is now both a G-8 and a G-20 meeting, which will be coming to Canada in June.

As Mr. Sorenson said, my name is Fraser Reilly-King and I am the coordinator of the Halifax Initiative, which is a coalition of development, environment, faith-based, human rights, and labour organizations. We have 19 members. We were founded 15 years ago, actually, when the G-7 summit came to Halifax in 1995.

Our activities since that point have focused on the policies and practice of the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, and export credit agencies. We endeavour to fill the shortfalls in their policies and their practice and make suggestions for filling those gaps.

Our organization is also a member of the 2010 Canadian G-8 Civil Society Coordinating Committee, which is responsible for developing the policy platform that all of you should have seen prior. And my colleague Amanda will be talking about that in a little more detail following me.

Before we get into discussing the chapeau document or the policy platform, I did want to provide a little bit of context for next year's summits, both the G-8 and the G-20 meetings, particularly with respect to the structures for governing the global economy.

As many of you are aware, over the past two years countries the world over have been battered by a series of interconnected and unrelenting crises of food, fuel, finance, and climate. No nation has gone unaffected, and the scale of each crisis is certainly one that no one could have anticipated, let alone imagined.

In response, global leaders, through the Group of 20 or G-20, have now met in Washington, in London, and just last month in Pittsburgh, to address many of these crises. Parallel to this, the United Nations has also initiated a process, pulling together a commission of experts made up of finance ministers, former finance ministers, central bank governors, and academics to put together a series of recommendations to inform a conference that took place last June in New York on the global economic and financial crisis.

Last month, as you would have seen in the news, leaders in Pittsburgh announced that the G-20 would become the premier forum for discussing global economic and financial issues. And importantly for Canada, at the time Prime Minister Harper also announced that next year when the G-8 comes to Canada, Canada would also be co-chairing with South Korea a G-20 summit that will take place at the same time as the G-8 meetings. For many, this development is seen as a positive and more inclusive step forward.

As you would have also heard, the countries of the G-20 boast 65% of the world's population and represent over 85% of global gross national product. A positive step forward from the G-8 is that the G-20 now brings to the table such emerging economies as South Africa, China, Brazil, India, Mexico, Argentina, Indonesia, and a number of countries in the developing world.

But also importantly, the G-20 excludes 173 countries. There is not a single low-income or least-developed country in the pack, and not a single fragile state. The African Union is essentially shut out. And from that perspective we believe it's not entirely inclusive, nor legitimate or credible. Furthermore, the G-20, just like its predecessor the G-8, remains largely untransparent and unaccountable.

Therefore, at this tremendous moment of transition and change, we need to be extremely careful not to freeze this new institution and its membership into an historical moment in time. What I mean by this is that what works right now in 2009 we need to make sure works also in 2029 or 2059.

If you want an example of how things have fallen short on this front, just think of the UN Security Council. It spoke to a moment in time in 1945, but 60 or 65 years later the global economy has changed, and the world has changed.

What then? We come to next year's G-20. Canada, I feel, could play an incredibly important role, one of tremendous leadership, by initiating a process with other countries to transform the current structure of the G-20 into a forum that models democratic and transparent policy and decision-making and kickstarts a new era of multilateral cooperation.

We can get into more detail, if you want, on what this might look like. But what we really wanted to frame here were some of the principles that could guide the composition of that structure. To be pragmatic, we propose that it still be limited in size, but it should be representative in composition.

As I've hinted, a G-20 in principle isn't a bad idea. In past years, various entities have underscored the need for a council to help govern the global economy. The 1995 Commission on Global Governance, Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo, French President Jacques Chirac, and then more recently the UN Commission of Experts, which I referenced earlier, have all flagged such an idea. A forum of leaders, we would suggest, hand-picked by the powerful, who have no global or public credibility, is not sustainable. Such a forum should include possibly 20 to 29 countries and have representatives nominated by the members of regional multilateral bodies. The spokesperson would rotate on a periodic basis.

A second principle is that it would be inclusive of the poorest countries in the world. As I mentioned, it is positive that Brazil, India, China, South Africa, Turkey, and Indonesia are now at the table. But South Africa can't be expected, nor entrusted, to speak on behalf of 50 other countries in Africa, particularly since these countries it's representing have very different realities and needs from those of South Africa. They have very high debt loss, a narrower range of exports, weaker industrial bases, a larger rural population, greater dependence on external resources, such as aid, and weak governance and regulatory systems. Including these countries at the table necessarily informs the agenda and the broader solutions that need to be addressed.

By implementing the more representative forum outlined above, Canada would set the stage for addressing a more comprehensive agenda on global, economic, and social issues.

It's also important to provide voices for civil society at this new platform. Non-state actors in the past several decades have proven to be increasingly important players in multilateral organizations. Civil society analysis, proposals, and protests have positively impacted governments' understanding of the issues, methods of work, and policy agendas. Engaging civil society is key to the democratic process and has become a central element of a range of discussions within different fora. Formalizing a process for engaging civil society within the G-20 would be an important step forward. This can take the form of expert working groups, involving a range of stakeholders, that could make formal submissions to the G-20 for consideration. Or it could involve opening up Canadian consultation and parliamentary debate ahead of next year's meeting.

Transparency of process and accountability for decisions is the fourth principle we think should guide this new body. Ironically, the financial crisis, a crisis whose origins can be linked, in part, to a lack of transparency in financial institutions, has given birth to a new set of institutions that lack any transparency or accountability.

A leaders G-20 should publish agenda and background documents on public websites ahead of their meetings. It should also be a first step towards an effective and representative leaders summit process within the framework of the UN. It would strengthen the broader multilateral system and contribute its reports from G-20 discussions to the General Assembly and the Economic and Social Council.

Without such changes, the G-20 rapidly risks losing credibility and legitimacy, just as it has found a renewed need for its existence. Strong Canadian leadership during this important period of transition could go a long way toward addressing that.

Thank you.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

We will now move to Madam Sussman.

10:10 a.m.

Amanda Sussman Policy Advisor, Plan Canada

Thank you.

Good morning. I thank you for the opportunity to appear here today, and I'll try to use it wisely to make the best use of your time.

My name is Amanda Sussman and I'm here on behalf of the 2010 Canadian G-8 and G-20 Civil Society Co-ordinating Committee, which is an initiative involving more than 100 Canadian organizations and associations of organizations who themselves are supported by thousands of Canadians across the country. I'm also an advisor to Plan Canada, one of the world's oldest and largest international development agencies, operating in more than 66 countries.

Today I'd like to brief you on a major initiative of the committee that began last February in preparation for the Canadian presidency of the G-8. Essentially we began with what worked and what didn't work in Kananaskis when Canada last hosted the G-8 in 2002. One of the things that became clear was that, while there were dozens of organizations engaged in public campaigning using a variety of methods—from constructive engagement with the government all the way to street action outside the alternative summit in Calgary—there was no clearly articulated set of recommendations that could be communicated both to the government and to the public as to what it was that civil society organizations were actually looking for.

It was also unclear where there was broad consensus upon which political leaders could base their actions. So this time around, organizations are taking quite a different approach. The document you have before you entitled “An Agenda for Global Development” is a result of an in-depth process whereby a broad and diverse grouping of organizations agreed upon three critical and interlocking themes that should be at the centre of the 2010 agenda: combatting poverty, transforming the global economic and financial system, and making real progress on climate change. Within those themes, dozens of organizations have produced a clear set of policy recommendations to government that are specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and actionable from the government's point of view.

For instance, the recommendations on child and maternal health reflect the collective expertise of Canada's five largest international development organizations: UNICEF, World Vision, Plan Canada, CARE, and Save the Children, who themselves have decades of experience working on these issues first-hand around the world. Similarly, the recommendations on food security reflect the work of the Food Security Policy Group, an association of 35 agricultural and development organizations from across the country who work together to share their collective expertise as front line organizations working on food security. These are just two of the many associations who participated in the process to produce each of the recommendations you have before you.

I want to emphasize that the recommendations are not just supported by Canadian organizations alone. Over the past three days in Ottawa, the committee has hosted a global gathering of citizens organizations working on the G-8 and G-20 around the world. From our discussions, it became clear that the recommendations outlined in this document reflect a broader and wider international consensus, which will also be communicated to other G-8 and G-20 leaders in their respective countries.

On poverty, the committee began with a very straightforward question. What could the G-8 realistically accomplish to advance each particular issue in 2010, given that it is a short-term political body without institutional capacity to implement initiatives in the long term? The recommendations are mainly directed at what Canada can do as host of the G-8 to put the millennium development goals back on track. For those not familiar with them, the millennium development goals are an agreed-upon set of international goals set by world leaders at a series of summits throughout the 1990s. There are eight goals covering the world's most pressing issues, from poverty and hunger to HIV/AIDS and education, with specific targets to be reached by the year 2015.

Clearly, 2010 will be a decisive year for Canada and for the world, and our decisions on economic reform and climate change will determine the success of the world's efforts to reduce poverty and address global warming for the next generation and beyond. As host of the next G-8 summit, Canada can make the difference between two choices: relegating these aspirations to no more than a distant hope, or confirming a serious possibility that many of these goals can be a reality in our lifetime.

I also want to emphasize that we have made important progress in many cases and money has been well spent. Past investments in these issues are producing some remarkable results on HIV and AIDS, on education, and on immunization, just to mention a few. In Africa alone, citizens have used ODA flows to provide AIDS treatment to nearly three million people, dramatically reduce the deaths due to malaria, and help put more than 34 million children back in school.

What is unique about 2010 is that with many of the challenges discussed in this paper the causes are now well understood and the solutions are well known. Rather than large elusive goals that remain too difficult to tackle, this paper focuses on realistic steps that Canada can take to catalyze progress on many of the world's most pressing issues and promote a new model of globalization that is socially responsible, economically sustainable, and environmentally just.

What we are looking for here today is to initiate a constructive and effective dialogue between the Government of Canada and citizens groups based on best practices of G-8 summits in the past. We feel it would be essential to have this committee play an important role as a vehicle for Canadian stakeholders from many different sectors—for profit, not-for-profit—by holding a distinct set of hearings on the G-8 and G-20 agendas.

The process does not have to be too onerous to be effective. For example, it could be four to six hearings, with two in Ottawa and four distributed across key regions in the country, culminating in a concise report with clear recommendations to government. These hearings could be one of several things that parliamentarians do to engage their citizens on these key issues as world leaders come to Canada next year.

Beyond this committee, best practices from previous G-8 meetings include a wider dialogue between government and civil society globally, known as the Civil G-8.

We hope this committee will play an active role in facilitating this wider conversation, and we look forward to working with you on this initiative.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Madam Sussman.

We'll move into our first round.

Mr. Pearson, please, seven minutes.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do want to be brief, because I know we have committee business to get to. I just have a couple of quick questions.

I really like your idea, Ms. Sussman, about the committee being utilized to provide that citizen engagement. I presume plans are already under way at the government level about this conference in Muskoka. Can you tell me the status of the government consulting with civil society? Has that been taking place or not?

10:20 a.m.

Policy Advisor, Plan Canada

Amanda Sussman

At this level, it's very, very minimal. We are not familiar with a broad plan on the process for consultations, but we're looking forward to more information. We've had some initial consultations on specific issues with small groups at the officials level only.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

So this committee could be part of what the government uses to do that. I think that is a very wise recommendation.

Also, I was at Kananaskis and Gleneagles, and at alternative formats, and it's very frustrating that these things are put out there and we never quite stick to them. On this one coming up in Muskoka, there's going to be the pressure of the world economy and other things we're facing.

What can we do to better ensure that the commitments made at this broad level are actually completed? In many ways we seem to be moving away from them. I realize it's easy for government to set targets and move away, but what could civil society or other groups do to help tie us down to commitments so we actually deliver on them?

10:20 a.m.

Policy Advisor, Plan Canada

Amanda Sussman

We have made some important progress in recent years on the accountability mechanisms for the G-8s. There's now a formal institutionalized structure to track what the G-8 commitments are and make further progress. That's also why you'll not see a laundry list of new initiatives in this paper. It's really focused on our organizations analyzing where the money has been well spent and what works, and doing more of that.

We're also looking at transferring some of those best practices on the accountability mechanisms to the G-20 process now. There is a process in place for making sure issues come back to the G-8 agenda, and if they haven't been appropriately defined, looking at concrete timetables and action plans to achieve stated previous commitments.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

Mr. Reilly-King, have you anything to say to that?

10:20 a.m.

Coordinator, Halifax Initiative Coalition

Fraser Reilly-King

I think it also gets to this issue of making the G-20, as it is beginning, more transparent and accountable for its decisions. I think as long as you have 20 countries, or eight countries, that are the same every year, they're going to pursue more of their own political interests, the interests of the day.

If you have a more representative body, where the person speaking on behalf of Africa has been nominated, for example, by the African Union, he then has to report to the African Union on the commitments he has made. I think you build a better sense of accountability by transforming the body into a more representative body. Also, if there's greater transparency for the discussions, then the governments at the table are forced to be more accountable to their own constituencies and the public back home.

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

That's great. Thank you both.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. Pearson.

Madame Deschamps.

10:20 a.m.

Bloc

Johanne Deschamps Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

You might say that you have quite a program in the lead-up to the 2010 summit. In an ideal world, the excluded countries would be allowed to take part in the summit. Their contribution could be decisive, particularly in the fight against poverty and the transformation of our financial and economic systems in the middle of this global economic crisis. As well, climate change and environmental issues are of great concern to me. However, those issues are not adequately addressed or given the necessary attention in light of their increasingly serious impact on the poorest countries. Once again, it is the poor that are the most affected.

In my opinion, we have to eliminate the divide between rich and poor so that the most disadvantaged and most affected countries can contribute to these events. At the moment, they are not given the opportunity to do so. There is a political divide between the interests of emerging economies and those of the global leaders.

I do not know if you want to add anything to what I have just said, but I wanted to indicate my support for your undertaking. It seems to me that it is essential for us to support and advance the objectives set out by those countries.

10:25 a.m.

Coordinator, Halifax Initiative Coalition

Fraser Reilly-King

Perhaps as a reaction to that, one of the things we have learned from this global crisis is just how interconnected we are. Back in September and October there was some thinking that perhaps economies like China, Brazil, or Russia--there are a number of countries that have built up substantial reserves--which were a little bit better protected against the crisis, would be decoupled from the impacts of the crisis. What we've seen is that globalization has meant that no one is immune from any crisis and that in fact crises are intrinsic to a globalized economy and that we can't come up with ad hoc solutions to tackle those.

I think what the G-20 has done so far that is positive is it has addressed the immediacy of the crisis. Every country has put in bailout packages. I think the UN has come up with a figure of commitments of around $20 trillion, I think $1.69 trillion just on fiscal stimulus.

If we don't now move from that immediate bailout to address more systemic problems with the globalized economy—and we've touched upon some of them in here, such as democratizing international financial institutions, implementing new rules for trade and finance, and a real transition to a sustainable economy—then you can expect the same thing to happen five years down the road. It's going to be a longer and a harder recovery.

It's a good first step, but what we'd be looking for Canada to do next year is to really move from those first initial immediate responses to something much more substantive that's going to change the rules and policies of the game for everyone.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Madam Sussman.

10:25 a.m.

Policy Advisor, Plan Canada

Amanda Sussman

I'll just add to that. Obama's Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said, “Never waste a good crisis”. This is an opportunity, really, to start looking at some of those fundamental systemic issues so that we prevent such things from happening in the future.

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Madame Deschamps.

Madame Lalonde.

10:25 a.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

You must have thought of a strategy. Making a significant effort to try and achieve three priority objectives is not everything; you must also think about how to get those countries and their civil society organizations on side in order to move forward. A meeting of the G20 is an extraordinary opportunity. Action has to be taken, and it is important to know how to advance ideas and get answers.

10:25 a.m.

Coordinator, Halifax Initiative Coalition

Fraser Reilly-King

In response to your question, what we're facing now or what we're realizing now is that before, we were really dealing with the G-8; they were the governors of the global economy. Now it's clear that more people need to be at the table. So for my organization and others, a strong element of our focus over the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years is going to be reaching out to civil society organizations in different countries, in particular for now the G-20 countries, because they're facing the same problems.

I think a number of countries, Brazil, India, China, Turkey, are now at the table, and they don't necessarily have the same views that the G-8 have. I think an important element to this changing governance is it's not just different as to who's at the table, but now there are different opinions being brought to the table. Another danger is if those voices, like what China wants or what India wants, aren't listened to as well, the G-20 won't work. We are looking to broaden our outreach to different groups.

10:30 a.m.

Bloc

Francine Lalonde Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

The G8, which will become the G20, is in fact an opportunity to reflect on how we can increase our efforts in an interconnected world.

10:30 a.m.

Coordinator, Halifax Initiative Coalition

Fraser Reilly-King

It really is a key opportunity. France has said that in 2011 that there won't be a G-8 any more, it will just be a G-20. We're in a huge period of transition, and that's why Canada is such a focal point. You know, it's always seen as a middle power. It can bridge the gap between northern and southern economies. I think it would be hugely important for Canada to make a positive step forward to try to make that transition and bridge that gap. Otherwise, just as we're starting, it's going to be a big step back.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Madam Sussman, did you have something on the other question, as well? I know you were trying to get in there.

10:30 a.m.

Policy Advisor, Plan Canada

Amanda Sussman

No, no, that's okay. I just wanted to respond on building the bridges between the civil society networks. This past conference I referred to in the past three days brought in over 80 representatives from organizations from civil society around the world, and that's growing in momentum. We're finding that the collaboration between groups internationally is building with each G-8 summit, and a major focus of that is to keep broadening that and reaching out to groups that have not participated in the past.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you.

We'll move now to Mr. Goldring, please.