Evidence of meeting #41 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was company.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:45 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to our guests.
Do you believe that one of the key facets of corporate social responsibility, when it comes to the extractive industries, is for companies to be consulting with the local population about their projects?
10:45 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
Absolutely.
10:45 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Do you know about the case I referenced with the previous witnesses in Ecuador, the so-called Mirador project?
10:45 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
I don't know it sufficiently to comment.
10:45 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
There is a recent media report, and it might have the name of the company wrong—Corriente Resources mining. The reason I bring that up is that the process, according to the media report, was that the locals weren't consulted thoroughly. In fact, this has led to violence in the community. In September 2006, locals asked what would happen—I'm quoting from the media report, “to their farms, rivers and forests once drilling started”. They didn't get sufficient response from the government and from the company, and they protested, which is what people do in democracies when they want to have their voices heard.
What happened next is very disturbing, because there was a local senator, analogous to a premier of the Amazon area, who joined the citizens in the protest. Here's what happened. And it seems to be this pattern we see: there was an alignment between the military and the company. At the point where they crossed this checkpoint—there was a military checkpoint, and the protesters went across the checkpoint—there were 200 soldiers armed with tear gas and rubber bullets. They started shooting, and the senator—this is an elected representative of the people—said he “hid in the forest and when I came out of the woods hours later, I was arrested and charged with invading military territory”. They then were taking him away. He said:
I grabbed onto a tree and wouldn't let go....They tore me from it. They tied my hands. My nose and mouth were bound in tape. My feet too. They put me on the helicopter and took me away to Zamora (a 15-minute ride by chopper). I think the only reason they didn't kill me there was because people saw them put me on the helicopter. When I arrived I had a lot of bruises. I was punched, kicked and...
It says “dominated“—I think there's a translation issue.
Of course, the company would give a different story.
My point is that if we had a scenario where we have Canadian companies involved in this kind of process, do you think this would be the kind of thing you'd want to investigate?
10:50 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I have a point of order. What Mr. Dewar is saying is that the company is responsible. I thought he said, in reading that account, that it was military. Now you just said the company is involved in this kind of activity.
10:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I have no idea what that intervention was.
Do you believe the company has a responsibility to do its role to consult the people in this kind of project? In this scenario, if someone were to put forward to you their concerns on behalf of the community, if the company weren't wanting to cooperate, would you be able to investigate?
10:50 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
Absolutely, local community consultation is crucial to securing the social licence to operate.
10:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
But not the legal licence, the social licence. Perhaps you could tell us what that is.
10:50 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
Right, but I think that social licence to operate right now is actually more important than legal licence to operate, and it's intimately embedded in legal licence to operate. That is to say, I think a lot of companies have gotten in trouble by box-ticking on legal permitting and failing to really do enough on social licence to operate.
10:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
I want to be clear here. That doesn't preclude someone from going ahead to mine a project if they don't have what you call the social licence to operate.
10:50 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
I think it actually has been the main cause of a lot of projects not going forward.
10:50 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
Right, but they can't access the land.
10:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
We've heard interventions that perhaps it's otherwise, that if they're provided with the legal means to do so, they can and will.
10:50 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
Right. The reason I think this is important is, as I mentioned a few minutes earlier, it's absolutely in the interests of companies, right? Because it costs them hundreds of millions of dollars when they don't get this right. I think that's an important driver.
10:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
If the company didn't want to cooperate in the investigation like the one I just outlined—which might be coming to you soon, I don't know if you've received it yet—in that scenario, if the company decided they didn't want to cooperate, you could not investigate.
10:50 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
No, I could not investigate.
10:50 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
If EDC were supporting a project, and a concern was brought forward to you and EDC was involved in that concern, would EDC be required to cooperate and provide documentation, or could they just say they don't want to? In other words, is EDC forced to comply with an investigation or are they treated similarly to a private company?
10:50 a.m.
Counsellor, Office of the Extractive Sector Corporate Social Responsibility Counsellor
I can't really say, because there is no review process in place right now. I think that's a very good question that should be explored with EDC. I can't really speak to how it would unfold, because the process doesn't exist right now.
