Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2011

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I'm just suggesting that possibly you might want to look at that.

There is another thing I want to ask. I look at some of the donor countries, and obviously the United States has always been on top and we're right there as well. I know that private individuals would be interested to know where those private.... I would suggest most of them would be from North America, especially the United States, European Union, China, Japan, and then Canada. Are you encouraging countries—and I'd like to use something a little stronger than encouraging, but we'll leave it at that—like Saudi Arabia, which is an incredibly rich organization and has managed to tag its symbol on the Red Cross...? And I don't want to just pick on the Saudis, but the Chinese probably will have a larger economy than the United States by 2020, they're suggesting. Are you encouraging countries like that to get on board and to do their share as well?

[Susan Johnson]

Absolutely. We actually have a series of very interesting initiatives within the world of Red Cross and Red Crescent, where the Red Crescent societies—the gulf states, the Middle East—are more and more engaged in international assistance and we are really trying to build an effective kind of coordination with them.

In a case like China, the Canadian Red Cross has a long-term partnership with the Chinese Red Cross and we're working with the Chinese Red Cross now on helping them become a more and more effective donor outside of China to disasters, for instance, in Africa—

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Are they responding?

[Susan Johnson]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Mr. Rae asked about some of the economic benefits on that side. What about this side? I see a lot of these structures—obviously you're building them, but as you get better at this, is there an opportunity to go to Canadian firms, for instance, and say you need this sort of stuff, and have them develop those things, not just bid on them? Say that you're having a problem with this, you're having a problem with that, and go to Canadian firms. Do you have any success stories? Is that happening? Can you maybe share some of those examples?

[Susan Johnson]

We haven't been working only with Canadian firms but also with Canadian researchers and think tanks. Certainly we would do the lessons learned, after an experience like Haiti. We would look at this case and we would sort of look at.... One of the things we are looking at in the shelter business is, in different circumstances, whether there are some assumptions we can make about what kinds of models would work, actual infrastructure models and therefore what kinds of materials you would need to have access to and what kinds of things will be culturally appropriate in different environments, and working with, as I said, think tanks and research organizations. It could well be appropriate to reach out to some private sector organizations in Canada and elsewhere, in terms of being prepared to co-invest and look at that.

But it's early days at this point. Right now, in terms of our own norms, as the Canadian Red Cross, we do a competitive bidding process whenever we're looking at any significant contract whatsoever.

[Richard Clair]

And for the shelters, the winning bid came from Quebec. It was open Canada-wide and it was won by a Quebec firm in Montmagny called Laprise. They're the ones building—

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

The forestry guys are pretty happy.

[Richard Clair]

Yes. It is pre-panelled.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Good.

Okay, we're going to just wrap up.

Mr. Lunney, do you have one quick question, and then we'll wrap up today?

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Thank you very much.

It is a fascinating discussion, with 1,200 temporary shelters already constructed, big upgrades on what existed, and 7,500 on the horizon. Given the challenges of land ownership, I think that's very commendable work.

When you're putting together these temporary shelters, how do you take into consideration—or do you—linkage to essential services like sanitation, safe drinking water, basic medical care, educational services for the community, and so on? How do you evaluate that when you're looking at these temporary housing facilities?

[Susan Johnson]

Absolutely, those are vital, and that's part of why I was saying earlier that we're helping people rebuild essentially where they were living already, to the extent that things like a health care clinic are nearby, or a school for the children and those kinds of things are in place. However, in the Jacmel area, for instance, where I described earlier this integrated health program that we're going to engage in, that we're looking at, we are actually going to be building some clinics in areas where there weren't clinics before. So we're trying to do what we can to actually make the infrastructure a little bit more robust.

But to the question of water and sanitation and livelihoods, as I think Richard explained earlier, we're bringing the shelter part, but our partner the Netherlands Red Cross is bringing the latrine and the access to clean water to each of the beneficiaries of the shelter program. So we've made that a partnership because we realized that it's vital to have that. And then with the Spanish Red Cross and the British, we have the livelihoods initiative, so that people have some small economic activity to get back on their feet.

So we realize that there has to be an integrated package to help people really re-establish their lives where they are and where they want to be for the longer term.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Brown.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I realize that I'm usurping other time. I wrote this out.

Mr. Clair, when you were talking earlier, you said that when the shelters are handed over, occupancy rights are given both to the man and the woman in the shelters, even if they're not married, and one of the—

[Richard Clair]

No, if they're not married, it goes to the woman.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Okay. It goes to the woman, and we were talking specifically at that time about violence against women. So what results are you having with this initiative? Is it decreasing violence against women, and, if so, who's monitoring this so that we get this information?

My other question is are they able to take this and use it as collateral for capital or credit, if they want to start a business?

[Richard Clair]

On the first question, no, we don't monitor violence in communities. We have community mobilizers, and we're there, and we have a list of questions. That's one of the other programs we want to put in place on protection issues, on community violence, but these are early days for the turnover.

On the collateral, there is no real system in place for the people who earn less than $2 a day to use these shelters as collateral. I haven't seen it yet. They're not property owners, and I don't think the basis of the banking system is very well developed. There are a couple of caisses populaires being developed, but the basis of many businesses is clearing up on the land title and ownership. Until and unless that's done, it's going to be very difficult to use any of that for collateral.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is it something for the future?

[Richard Clair]

Not for the Red Cross. It will be in the hands of the people there.

[Susan Johnson]

I mean, there certainly is a range of small-enterprise economic development organizations in Haiti and, outside of the earthquake context, quite a vibrant informal economy and small kind of trader economy, as I said earlier. There are organizations sort of along the lines of the Grameen Bank. I don't know that the Grameen Bank itself is in Haiti, but that kind of organization doing that kind of micro-credit is in the country. Again, it's not a business we're in, but I'm certainly aware that it's present in the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I do want to thank our witnesses. I think you guys were a great first organization to lay the foundations for what we're going to be looking at in Haiti.

For committee members, I just want to give you updates on a couple of things. We've talked to ministers Oda and Cannon about coming. Minister Cannon is not available prior to March 22; there is a possibility that Minister Oda is available for Monday, March 21.

The second issue is the subcommittee on international human rights. Scott Reid wanted to appear before the committee to talk about a couple of things they've been doing. That is going to happen on Wednesday.

Then the third thing I wanted to mention to you was that there has been a request by Mr. Dewar to have René Magloire to attend. We want to make sure that we fit him in; he's here Monday, March 7. We'll put him in for the last half hour, because we have officials in the first part.

The last thing I wanted to mention is that the current ambassador for Sudan in Canada, Mr. Elsadig Almagly, has asked to meet with the committee concerning the post-referendum period. I would suggest that's probably not a bad thought process that we look at trying to move in as well.

We're going to try to schedule all those things in; I just wanted to give you a heads-up. Is that all right?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, with regard to the ministers, I will repeat that when we had the estimates the last time, we didn't have a chance to have ministers. The primary function of this committee, of course, is to have the ministers for the estimates. I'm hoping for at least one. I'm hearing you say Ms. Oda for the 21st is what we're—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That is a possibility, and I'm reporting back. We asked them, so I'm just reporting back—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

If I may, on behalf of my colleagues here, remind them that they haven't been in front of this committee for the estimates, and that's part of what their obligations are, as it is ours to—