Foreign Affairs Committee on March 7th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

All right. What I'm hearing is that Mr. Rae is suggesting a review of some other pieces of legislation that fit in with this, and what I'm hearing on the other side is that every three years doesn't seem very reasonable and practical, but maybe five years would be reasonable to have a look at all these pieces of legislation.

Am I hearing that?

Mr. Lunney.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

I think, Mr. Rae, if you start bringing in these other pieces of legislation—the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act is a justice committee bill, and perhaps it brings in Public Safety as well, and the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act--you're going way beyond Foreign Affairs and now into Public Safety and Justice.

I think you're going to end up complicating the composition of that committee. You already have two Houses of Parliament involved. It seems to me it would be better to keep it simple, but at least keep it at a five-year review and try to keep the terms of reference confined to the subject matter and that would be appropriate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Mr. Dorion.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Given the need to adopt this bill as quickly as possible, I am prepared to go back to our original suggestion that a review be conducted every five years. If that is the condition for adopting the bill, and adopting it quickly, I fully agree with the review being done after five years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Because we have an amendment on the original clause, do I have unanimous consent to drop the three years and go back to five?

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Not yet.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. We're making progress, but not quite so much. We have a little bit of bargaining--

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

We're still bargaining. We're doing our business here, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

All right. Who do I have on the list? I have nobody on the list.

Mr. Rae.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I'm prepared to drop the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act, although I do think all these things go together. I mean, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I think there is a kind of architecture here that we're talking about.

I recognize that this is—if I can continue the analogy—another brick in the building. I would argue that it would be helpful if we could add the United Nations Act and the Special Economics Measures Act to the review of operation of this act, so that we do the three pieces of legislation together and not just this one on its own, so we can understand how these all fit together.

[James Lunney, Conservative, Nanaimo—Alberni, BC]

At least it's keeping it within Foreign Affairs.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Yes, that's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

On the response to the joint committee, I'm not going to surprise anyone when I say I think this should be done by the House exclusively.

I've been on joint committees before, and there are occasions where it's relevant because of the way the place functions. We share responsibilities. If the Senate wants to take a look at this, they can. They can just pick it up and take a look at it. I'm not going to get in their way.

On Mr. Rae's point, I'm just trying to get my head around.... We're going to be looking at this particular piece of legislation, how it's functioning. If the review is thorough, then I agree with him that we should look at all aspects and what influences them.

My understanding—and maybe the officials can help us here—is that the way this legislation works, it actually is, as my dad used to say, adjacent to things. It's not incumbent, like SEMA. If we're doing a review of this legislation, right now, this is drawn from some of the facets of SEMA, but it's not directly implicated with SEMA.

Is that correct?

Okay.

I guess back to you, Bob. Are you wanting to look at this in terms of how these other pieces work in tandem? Is that what you want to do when you do the review?

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

How do we decide, for example? I mean, the government has brought forward this legislation because they say SEMA doesn't work or work for this situation. One could argue that all you need to do is amend SEMA.

I'm sure you had these internal discussions before you decided on what the best option was to go to cabinet with. That's how I remember it used to be. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. I just think that in terms of our understanding this stuff...I can't imagine that we'd look at this and not look at SEMA at the same time, that's all.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I just want to remind everyone that although I've given some latitude, we are still talking about the three years. That's the amendment on the new clause. So we'll have to circle the planes--

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, he's withdrawn that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

No, we need unanimous consent to do it.

I'll ask the question then. Can I carry the question on the three years? Can I do that so we can go back to the original one?

All right. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to ask the question on the amendment of the new clause, which just strikes five and makes it three years. I want to ask, then, if there's no more discussion on that particular issue, I'll call the question.

All those in favour of three years? Opposed?

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Chair, is the time period set at five years?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes, that's correct. If you vote against the three years, that means we're going back to the five years, the way it was originally written.

Can I call the question again, just to be clear?

All those in favour of putting three years in the clause? All those opposed to three years and going back to the five years?

(Amendment negatived)

Okay, so we're back to the five years.

It is now five o'clock and we have another witness.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

What about my little amendment, Mr. Chair, my modest amendment to include the United Nations Act and the Special Economic Measures Act?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

[Deepak Obhrai, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

I'm going to agree with you, just like you voted for some of them. You have to say I'm a nice guy.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

You are. Every time I think of you, I say “let me call you sweetheart”. That's what comes to mind.