Evidence of meeting #7 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was president.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you very much.
Mr. Panossian, were you involved in mobilizing the staff against the board in any way?
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Did you communicate internal proprietary information to outside agencies, such as the media or other human rights organizations?
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Did you use information you gained or human rights networks you developed to mobilize staff against the board?
Conservative
Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you.
This, in a way, gives you an opportunity to get on the record exactly these kinds of questions that, legitimately I think, have been asked in the news media.
Did you ever participate in discussions where plans were laid to make you interim president of Rights and Democracy?
As an Individual
There were no discussions to make me interim president. After the death of Monsieur Beauregard, at the end of the board meeting, Mr. Braun and some others talked among themselves and they looked at me and they said, “Well, we might ask you”, and I said, “Well, you decide”, and that was it. There were no discussions with me regarding assuming the job of interim president, but there was mention of it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Mr. Abbott, that's all the time we have. We'll have to come back again.
We're going to finish off the first round with Mr. Dewar.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair. I want to start with Madame Lévesque.
You mentioned in your testimony--and you've already responded to a question around reprisal--that there was essentially a gag order given to staff not to speak out. I'm wondering if you could tell me who was responsible for that gag order.
Vice-President, Union of Employees of Rights & Democracy, Public Service Alliance of Canada
We received a memo from the chair of the board of directors, Aurel Braun. It was sent to the managers of Rights and Democracy, with certified copies to the board of directors and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lawrence Cannon. The managers passed that memo on to us.
It is dated January 25, 2010 and states that "from today until further notice, all of the following must receive written authorization from the chair", with point 3 indicating that this concerned "all notices and other public communications issued by an employee of Rights and Democracy on its behalf."
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
As of this point, there's a memo sent to you from Mr. Braun that is copied to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Vice-President, Union of Employees of Rights & Democracy, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Yes.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
So we now have, for whatever reason--I'm not attributing this to Mr. Cannon at all, he's the cc on it--the head of this organization saying that everything that is stated by employees has to go through him, and he's letting the Minister of Foreign Affairs know that through a cc.
Vice-President, Union of Employees of Rights & Democracy, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Correct.
Vice-President, Union of Employees of Rights & Democracy, Public Service Alliance of Canada
That's why, for professionalism, we decided to obey that order, but we speak through our trade union and we are here on behalf of our trade union.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Well, the tragic irony, Chair, if I may, is that at a time when we have an organization that is working to support human rights in places like Afghanistan, the Congo--we know the list--we have an organization that has a chair who is telling employees they can't talk. Not only that, I think if you look at the statute of this organization, it is independent from government, so I have no idea why Mr. Braun feels it's necessary to cc the Minister of Foreign Affairs. I see that more as a chill, a freeze, on employees being able to speak freely. But I want to ask you this. You mention that at this point there was clearly a chill about speaking out. Did staff at that point believe there was an opportunity to actually speak to the chair in an open way?
President, Union of Employees of Rights & Democracy, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Could you clarify the question, please?
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
You get the chill, the gag order. At that point, was there a sense from staff that there was an ability to actually talk to the chair, to deal with the concerns they had? Were there any discussions about what was going on with the chair? Was there an opening by him to say, “Let's try to resolve what's going on”, or was it just a--
President, Union of Employees of Rights & Democracy, Public Service Alliance of Canada
During the whole period of the term of Mr. Gauthier there was no communication at all between the board, the interim president, and the staff--no communication at all.
President, Union of Employees of Rights & Democracy, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Yes. All of the information we had came from management or because we had to ask for it.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you.
Madame Cloutier, I want to ask you about how contracts are done at the institute, certainly when you were there. There were some concerns that Mr. Braun and Mr. Gauthier had about contracts that had been signed by the president, which, according to my understanding, followed within the statute and the bylaws. He was in fact empowered to sign off certain contracts under a certain amount.
Do you know of any contracts that, during your time there, were tendered over $10,000 that didn't have prior approval or were not tendered in a fashion that is under Treasury Board guidelines? In other words, was there ever a time where the board signed off contracts without bringing that information to the board, including the president and employees in that process? Did that ever happen?
As an Individual
I would like to clarify one point. The centre's by-laws state that every contract exceeding $10,000 must be subject to a call for tenders. They also state that the president is fully authorized to do business with consultants in the context of contracts. The president and the employees always abided by those rules.
Last year, the chair and vice-chair of the board retained the services of a law firm. They wanted a legal opinion in order to determine whether they could inform Mr. Beauregard of his performance evaluation. They retained the services of that firm without going to tender. At the June meeting, they ratified the fact that that law firm could continue to work for them. For everything that had previously been done, and for which the amount exceeded $10,000, they did not proceed by call for tenders. They also did not ask other members of the board for their approval before—