Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 18th, 2012

[Faisal Alazem]

Facebook is incredible. For many of us it seems to be an entertainment application or platform. In Syria it's a coordination platform and a revolution tool. It was banned in Syria, but they opened it after the Deraa protest, because they thought to themselves, we can do surveillance better and we can know who's with us and who's against us. Facebook, although being watched by the government, is being widely used. Depending on how things are happening in a city, they cut communication. For example, in Aleppo for a while the Internet was cut, and telephone lines as well, and in Deraa in the beginning.

We can use Skype or the phone. I have an interesting story. I was speaking to my parents once in Damascus and I could tell there was someone listening on the other line. I told him I knew he was listening, and he identified himself. It's incredible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to start our last round with Ms. Brown.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I'm going to make that point of clarification, Mr. Chair, if I may. The $2.5 million that was given was to ensure that medical supplies and clean water and sanitation were provided. Unfortunately, after further investigation it appeared that the dollars were going to be spent on infrastructure. That's why the dollars were redirected to the International Committee of the Red Cross to be used for medical supplies. It's not that the money was withdrawn.

Now, Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for coming. It is very troubling what we're hearing. As Mr. Dewar said, I don't think there's anybody here that isn't touched by your testimony.

I want you to recognize that Canada has sent more money per capita than the U.S. I think we're a little bit frustrated to some degree. I also want to mention something about the Red Cross/Red Crescent. They were here at our last meeting, and they tell us that they're apolitical. We sent them $12 million. Are you suggesting that we should withhold funding from the Red Cross/Red Crescent? Do you think we should do that?

[Faisal Alazem]

I think the Red Cross is good to finance and support in the refugee camps, specifically in Turkey. The Red Cross does not operate inside Syria; the Red Crescent is operating inside Syria.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

That's going to be very difficult, of course, if we say, listen, we want you to spend your money here, but don't spend your money there. The question is, should we stop that aid? That $12 million we sent, should we put a stop to that and say we're not going to support this any more?

[Faisal Alazem]

I think we can target what we want to fund and what we want to finance, ideally, as Canadians and as Syrians living in Canada. I'm sure everyone in this room—many of us are of Syrian origin—is touched. It affects all of us. We would have loved to finance the field hospitals inside Syria and whatever efforts there are to support the refugees in Jordan and Turkey.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

It's very difficult; I think we can agree with that. It's a touchy situation.

I want to ask you about the diaspora. What are they doing? Is it organized? Are they fundraising? Can you tell the committee about that?

[Faisal Alazem]

Do you want to take it, Mariam?

[Mariam Hamou]

Sure. The diaspora is organized under the Syrian Canadian Council. Their main goal I think is to collect money for blankets, for food, for clothing to go into the camps outside of Syria. Inside of Syria—again, it's very hard to get anything inside without having connections with the Assad government, so it's very hard to get anything in there, whether it's money.... You know, we try to get money in there, but there are just no guarantees that it's not going to be pilfered at the top.

It is organized. In terms of politically and media-based, it isn't organized, but it is for collecting money.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Do you have any idea how much money they've raised?

[Mariam Hamou]

I can't tell you that amount for a couple of reasons. A lot of times they're collecting blankets and clothing, and they send containers over.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

So they're doing it more on their own, and it's not organized. I can understand that.

[Mariam Hamou]

Exactly, yes. Money-wise, it's very difficult.

If you go through different cities, I think they've raised probably around $200,000 or $300,000 in the last year.

[Faisal Alazem]

From my information, at least from the different cities, I think the number is close to $2 million, actually.

[Mariam Hamou]

Oh, $2 million in cash.

[Faisal Alazem]

Yes, $2 million was raised and I think transferred via Jordan. This is not just Montreal. I'm speaking coast to coast, from Vancouver to Montreal.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Just very quickly, here's the situation. I just want you to think about these things. We had the representatives from the Republic of Turkey in here. The fact remains, and I think we all agree with this, that democracy is the key—true democracy, where rights of property, rights of religion, and rights of expression are things that are fundamental. The problem is that when you suggest we support rebels, I think most Canadians are thinking, “Gee, I don't know if I want to do that, because what's going to come?”

We've seen that play out before in the Arab Spring as well. We all hoped for the very things you bring to this table, but the end result was something completely different.

I would suggest too that has to be the focus; democracy has to be the underlining fact that has to come out of it. I would suggest and encourage you to look to Turkey, too, and encourage Turkey to continue a lot of—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren. That's all the time we have.

We're going to finish up with Madame Laverdière, and then we have to go in camera for about five minutes to talk about future business. I'm going to ask Madame Laverdière to finish off for five minutes.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses. Your remarks were both moving and very interesting. You have given us food for thought.

Faisal said that the lack of support for the armed resistance on the ground has made it possible for more radical groups to emerge, which is why people on the ground should receive support. Generally speaking, we all agree that providing weapons to Syria is not necessarily the solution. That is our position.

What are the other solutions? We have talked about them on more than one occasion, but I would like us to review the facts. What else can we do to support the Free Syrian Army?

[Faisal Alazem]

Thank you. I am going to answer to both, since the questions are somewhat connected.

In light of what is happening in Syria, we feel that the solution will inevitably involve force. Anyone who is even a little familiar with the politics and the geopolitics in that region—be it the Gadhafi regime, the Saddam regime or any other dictator's regime—knows that those regimes do not believe in political transitions. They have been around for decades. Just think, we are the first hereditary republic in the history of the world. The one after us is North Korea.

It is not realistic to hope that the Assad regime will step down because of missions like those of Kofi Annan and Lakhdar Brahimi. The only way it will happen is if there is a shift in Syria’s balance of power. There are two ways to do that: either through an intervention, like in Kosovo, or on the ground, on Syrian territory, by tilting the balance of power. One way to achieve this is to support the freedom fighters.

I can tell you that the revolution in Syria was not violent for the first six or seven months, but the regime did everything in its power to turn it into an armed revolution. It specifically targeted non-violent activists like Ghiyath Matar in Darayya. He was nicknamed “Little Gandhi”. He gave water and roses to Syrian military officers. Of course, the activists on the list were targeted and, after they were tortured and their throats slit, they were taken back to their parents. The regime did everything it could to militarize this conflict.

Unfortunately, the only way to end this regime and to make Syria’s transition to democracy possible is through force. We have no doubt about that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much. I want to also thank our witnesses for being here today.

It's obviously very sensitive and very touching testimony. We appreciate your taking the time to be here.

Yes, Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I just want to ask if there is any opening from government to consider a motion.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

We'll have to consider that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

What I want to talk about in camera is what we're doing here. These are all the witnesses we have, but I want to discuss timing.

Thank you all, once again.

I'm going to suspend for about one minute to clear the room and get us in camera to talk about future business.

Thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]