Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 4th, 2012

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

The Gates Foundation has long established itself as a huge contributor not only to polio eradication but to so many other causes. I can speak to the sexual exploitation of children. I was involved with the Gates Foundation, the Microsoft company, while I was police commissioner and police chief.

In this particular instance, the partnership of the Gates Foundation, Rotary International, as well as the Canadian government, CIDA, in an effort to eradicate polio in some of the major problem countries such as Nigeria, Afghanistan—and I forget the other one now—is optimizing the resources all around to take one last run at this very debilitating disease, which has long disappeared from Canada, basically. And this is what we want to do worldwide.

Again, it's leveraging partnerships on an ethical approach to dealing with a nagging problem, helping those in greater need. It's a great success story.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Minister.

That's all the time. We will catch you on the next round, Mr. Van Kesteren.

Mr. Dewar, sir, you have five minutes.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, I just want to come back to the partnerships program.

I ask the question very directly: how many projects have you approved since you have been minister? I know they're piling up on your desk, but I just want a straightforward answer on how many you have approved. Just give us an estimate.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Why can't you take my response for an answer—that I don't keep track of the numbers of projects I have approved? I have approved a lot of them. I am approving projects as they come forward. Why is it so important for the NDP to worry about numbers as opposed to results?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's a very interesting question, Chair.

I think what the minister is here to do is answer questions that we pose about his job. His job is to maintain the budget and to ensure that he's approving projects. The minister hasn't told us—we've had zero, according to him. He can't tell us if he's approved 5, 10, 15....

So, I just want to give him a last chance. Has he approved zero projects in the partnerships program since he has been minister?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

That's so typically disingenuous. I told you, if you had been listening, that I had approved a lot of them, that I don't keep score.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

How many of them?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Excuse me. I don't keep score. I do my work diligently day in, day out. I approve projects as they come forward, but I don't think that what matters is how many I have approved; rather, what I've approved in terms of results that we're attempting to achieve for Canadians.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Sir, this is the height of arrogance. When you say to a member of this committee that you can't tell us how many files you have approved—the people doing the work on the ground, who are saving lives—

You know, I was very interested, you said that CIDA's not here to help fund NGOs for life, but—

Excuse me, Ms. Brown.

We're going to hear a story now....

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Chair, I have a point of order. I just don't believe it's appropriate for anyone on this committee to call the minister “arrogant”, and I think the member should withdraw that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's not a point of order.

Back to you, Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You say that CIDA's not here to help fund NGOs for life. Those NGOs, sir, are saving lives. Not you, with all due respect. You fund the people who save lives. I don't save lives, you don't: we help them to do that. And you can't tell me—you've told me zero. That is the answer you are leaving on record of the number of partnership applications you've approved.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

I have saved lives, by the way.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

No, not as a minister—I know you have as a very well-respected police officer—in terms of NGOs and what they do. You're saying that you're not here to give them money for life for their operations. No one is suggesting they should.

I just asked you a very simple question: how many have you approved?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

If that is an absolutely mission-critical need for you, the NDP, to know, then I will get that information to you as to the number of projects I have approved. How's that?

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You can't even give us a ballpark figure, Minister.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

I didn't come here to do that—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You came here to answer questions from this committee, and you are not answering the questions, sir, so we are leaving “zero” on the record, until you tell us otherwise.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Just a second. I understand the minister's offered to get a number for us and we will wait to hear back on that number.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want it on the record that's it’s totally disingenuous to take my answer and transport it into such a negative outlook on life. It's absolutely deplorable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes. Thank you.

He said he'll get us the numbers.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Chair, I want to go to the other question I had, regarding the partnerships program with the extractives.

Minister, the problem with the program is, as the OECD said, that there seems to be confusion with development goals and promotional commercial interests. Are you aware that Rio Tinto's profits were $726 million; IAMGOLD's profits were half a billion dollars; and in the case of Barrick Gold, $3 billion?

Could you help explain to us why we feel the need to put projects in their field as opposed to.... Just think of this for a minute; I worked in development. If your kid doesn’t have the fortune of living in an area where the extractive industries are, you are not able to get the benefits of these programs. Why are we partnering with these groups and cutting aid to NGOs that have a long track record of delivering aid and making a difference in people's lives?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's almost all the time we have, so you have about 45 seconds to answer.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

The simple answer is, aside from what profits you quoted, they in turn are giving a helping hand, in a significant way, in the communities where they're working, to people in those places who are in dire circumstances, to those countries in their social response to those needs—be they health, food, education, employment, economic opportunities. They are investing in the social and other economic benefits for those countries as well, while they obviously, as investors, are well entitled to make a profit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Van Kesteren for five minutes.