Foreign Affairs Committee on Jan. 31st, 2013

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you for that.

Regarding the political road map that was referenced, the road map which I believe was just adopted by the legislature in Mali on Tuesday, one of the pieces was aid in the next steps forward.

You've already mentioned the elections that have been planned for July. I noted that the U.K. has contributed to that road map. Does Canada intend to contribute to that, and if not, why not?

[Kerry Buck]

As I said, we have been consistently pressing for a return to democratic and constitutional rule, and part of the reason the road map came out when it did is pressure from the international community. I think the Malian government has made sure there are some strong elements in that road map, but there's been a strong message from the international community that it has to be a credible road map. All credit to the Malian government, but the international community and Canada did their part.

As David Morrison said, we are continuing to support provisional critical services in Mali: education, health services, etc.

Going forward, the government will continue to reflect on contributions Canada can make to address the situation in Mali, taking into account where those contributions would have most value, and taking into account where our international partners are directing their assets.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you for that. I guess we would encourage the government to consider supporting the road map. As you mentioned, government was pushing for the road map. Obviously, the next logical step would be to put our money where our mouth is. I know that's not necessarily your decision, but perhaps a it's strong recommendation.

On the other issue, Mr. Morrison, you have a difficult dilemma because there have been, and we could use different descriptors but I'll say disproportionate cuts at CIDA for the continent of Africa. I know there have been countries of focus and I know about the investments in Mali. We've had the closing of embassies. When it comes to the reduction of funding going forward, about 62% of the countries that will have their funding cut are countries in Africa. That's the mathematics of it.

My question goes back to what my colleague, Ms. Laverdière, asked. You've got defunding of the continent of Africa, and we've got embassies that are being closed, but for you to be able to take money and respond to this humanitarian crisis, I want to be assured this is new money that isn't going to affect other countries. I want to be assured that you're being given extra money for this humanitarian crisis, and that it won't negatively affect other programs. At the end of the day, we need to see a strong commitment like others have made, such as Japan, and that your defunding at the agency isn't going to negatively impact the need to respond immediately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Morrison, you've got about 45 seconds.

[David Morrison]

As my colleague, Kerry Buck, has pointed out, Canada remains very involved in Africa. Roughly half or slightly more than half of our development assistance will still be going to Africa, even after the deficit reduction action plan to which I believe you are referring.

The case in point here as I've mentioned is the Malian program was a significant program beforehand. It remains a significant program. My colleague, Leslie Norton, responded that on the humanitarian front there is a separate allocation yearly for humanitarian assistance. This is new money for Mali from that allocation at the expense of no other African country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Dechert, you have five minutes, sir.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would remind my friend, Mr. Dewar, again that Canada untied all of its aid to Africa.

Ms. Buck, I have two questions for you.

My first one is on the March 2012 coup that seems to have taken the international community by surprise. Were there any red flags? Should the international community have seen this coming? Also, can you give us your impression of how the international community has responded and of the speed with which they responded?

Second, after the security situation has stabilized in Mali and the elections have occurred, what other programs would you suggest Canada support in order to reinforce democracy in Mali?

[Kerry Buck]

The March 2012 coup came on very, very quickly. There has been a history of unrest, as I mentioned, by the Tuareg in the north, but it was different in March because of the presence of the extremist groups from outside. It was like a force multiplier in March, and the international community was taken by surprise. It was a three-day exercise by the time they were declaring the north an independent, sovereign Islamist state. It came on very quickly. The international community acted fast in that regard, but that situation has pertained in the north until right now.

The other surprising element was the push in early January by the Islamist extremists to move militarily down south towards Bamako. There weren't red flags on that one. It was a surprising move, and the international community responded more quickly.

I've had the joy of working on wars for a couple of decades now, and the international community reacted more quickly to this push by the Islamist extremists than I've seen before. It was impressive and, as Ms. Malikail said, the African leadership on this has been particularly impressive. I'm counting this as a minor success—well, a major success—but it's hard to call it that in the context of a conflict like this.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

My second question was about what we should do going forward after the election to help support democracy in the future.

[Kerry Buck]

As I said, the situation is changing hourly. It's changing daily. We'll have to take decisions and make recommendations on programming going forward in a very flexible manner, but if you look back to what we have done in the past, I think we have some of the main elements right.

Mr. Morrison talked about the work we've done on health education, but also on some elements to stabilize democracy and help build the capacity for democracy. My department, through our funding but with help from the Canadian Forces, the RCMP, and international partners, had started to work in Mali to build the capacity of the security sector and the security forces to do their jobs professionally, to do them well, and to do them in a way that protected civilians and respected the law.

The events over the last year were surprising. They were unfortunate in, as I said, a democratic state like Mali, but events of the recent week, I think, have started to turn things in the right direction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Finally, Mr. McKay, you have a couple of questions.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you.

If security against the Islamist threat is job one in Mali, why is it that we've not contributed to AFISMA?

[Kerry Buck]

The French and the Malian troops stepped up to the plate immediately. The first military push by the Islamist extremists was on January 7. On January 10 they moved down to what is sort of the dividing line between north and south in Mali and started to take over cities there. On January 11 there was an emergency session of the UN Security Council, and the French started their deployment at the request of the Malian government and in response to an invitation by the Malian government.

The French vanguard started, and they moved in quickly with aerial raids and some troops on the ground. The Prime Minister chose, in response to a request by a close ally, to support that element of the military operation through the provision of the C-17 strategic lift capacity. When the French request came, we reacted quite promptly.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I know, but that doesn't actually answer the question. Why is it we didn't respond to the UN request to financially support AFISMA?

Yesterday you announced humanitarian aid in the amount of $13 million. Assuming it's new money, and assuming it's not just re-profiled money, that's a worthy announcement. Other nations simultaneously announced funding for AFISMA. If, in fact, the French have the success we hope they will have, the need for training, organization, and what General Vance would know way better than anyone else in this room is necessary will have to come through AFISMA, and it needs to be done now.

[Kerry Buck]

As I said to Mr. Dewar, the government will continue to reflect on the contributions Canada can and should make to address the situation in Mali. We are looking at where other contributors are directing their resources and where Canada can make an effort, but we're also continuing on a number of other fronts, such as humanitarian—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

You have to say that other countries have reflected, and with the greatest respect, I'd have to say that the time for reflection is over. The necessary contribution that needs to be made at this point is to training and to helping the African-led mission. We all agree that it should be an African-led mission. If they are not properly financed, trained, etc., you increase the chances of failure.

[Kerry Buck]

As General Vance said, there are many different tools the international community uses to respond to a complex crisis. We have continued on the humanitarian front. We're continuing on development assistance. We're still doing security programming across the Sahel. We are training some of those troops in counterterrorism through exercise Flintlock. We will continue to reflect on other contributions Canada can make.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Part of it has to do with the use of our troops in Mali and surrounding regions. The presentation has been that they are there to protect Canadian assets. Will any of those assets include non-governmental assets, such as Iamgold's mine in south Mali or any of the other Canadian investments there? Apparently there are 10 or 12 Canadian-registered companies operating there. For that matter, are there any other assets, such as the investments of Canada pension, which is also significant there? Just out of curiosity, is there any intention to deploy to protect any of those non-governmental assets?

[MGen Jonathan Vance]

Sir, no, there is no intention to deploy to do as you just described. We are strictly focused on the support requested by DFAIT to protect the nation in Bamako.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It's just for protection.

[Kerry Buck]

We have advised Canadians to leave the country because of the unrest and have been doing that for a while.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Of the Canadians who are there, what percentage are dual nationality?

[Kerry Buck]

I'm afraid we don't have that statistic handy. We can get back to you on that.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Okay. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

To our witnesses from DFAIT, Defence, and CIDA, thank you very much for being here.

I'm going to suspend the meeting so that we can go in camera to discuss committee business. We will allow a few minutes just to clear the room, and then we will come back to discuss future meetings.

Thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]