Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Good morning. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), our briefing on the situation in Mali will continue.

I just want to thank both of our ambassadors for being here this morning. We have the ambassador, Her Excellency Diallo, from the Republic of Mali. Thank you very much for being here today. We also have the ambassador from France, His Excellency Ambassador Zeller. Thank you both for being here.

I believe that Her Excellency Ambassador Diallo has agreed to start off and so we'll give you the floor for 10 minutes. We look forward to your testimony. After both of you have had a chance to give some testimony, then we'll go back and forth over the next hour just to ask some questions. Once again, thank you very much for taking the time to be here on such short notice. We welcome you and we look forward to your testimony.

Ambassador, I'll turn it over to you.

[Her Excellency Traoré Diallo, Ambassador of the Republic of Mali to Canada, Embassy of the Republic of Mali]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, honourable members, Your Excellency Philippe Zeller, Ambassador of the French Republic to Canada, dear colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to begin by offering my deepest thanks to the organizers of this meeting and expressing my profound gratitude and appreciation for this opportunity to provide you with information on the political situation and on safety and security issues in the Republic of Mali since January 17, 2012.

Since the crisis erupted, Mali has never felt alone or abandoned. The whole world has rushed to its side to help put out the fire in the north. The international community's great concern for the Malian people is a token of friendship Malians can fully appreciate.

Your committee's invitation is no surprise to me, given the relationship of friendship, solidarity and co-operation between Canada and my country, going back to the early 1970s. Today, I am thankful that Mali is among the seven core African countries for Canadian assistance.

Honourable members, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to remind you that, in the wake of various rebellions, Mali signed several agreements with armed groups in order to restore peace, tranquility and stability, including the national pact, in 1992, and the Algiers Agreement, in 2006.

With the support of development partners, including Canada, many development actions have been undertaken to narrow the infrastructure gap in Mali's northern regions and to restore a certain calm.

This period of peace unfortunately deteriorated with the Libyan crisis, the consequences of which have been catastrophic for Mali and its neighbours.

As you know, my country was one of the first collateral victims of that crisis owing to the mass arrival on its soil of armed groups made up of former mercenaries returning from Libya, who were soon joined by Tuareg deserters from the Malian army, terrorists from Ansar Dine, from the Mouvement pour l'unicité et le jihad en Afrique de l'Ouest, or MUJAO, al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and Boko Haram, from Nigeria.

The January 17, 2012 attack on the city of Menaka by the Mouvement national pour la libération de l'Azawad—a Tuareg movement demanding Azawad's independence—represented the breach used by all the terrorist movements to step in and take possession of Mali's three northern regions.

Those rebel groups' demands vary. While some of them are demanding Azawad's hypothetical independence, others are rather seeking to create an Islamic state covering the whole national territory by recklessly engaging in all kinds of traffic and terrorism—with the kidnapping of westerners as their key activity.

Honourable members, ladies and gentlemen, in order to restore its total integrity, Mali submitted to the United Nations a request endorsed by ECOWAS and the African Union seeking support for our armed and defence forces in deploying an international force to recapture the northern regions.

Today, my country is very happy to see that the whole international community has understood how complex the security situation in the Sahelo-Saharan region is, and that the Malian crisis is one of the most serious threats in that sub-region and Africa, but is also a threat to international peace and security.

Mali is pleased that the UN Security Council has unanimously adopted, under chapter VII, resolution 2085 (2012) of December 20, 2012, authorizing the deployment of the International Support Mission in Mali to help the country regain its sovereignty and the integrity of its territory, and to fight international terrorism.

That resolution was adopted based on a concept of operation developed by a group of experts from ECOWAS and the African Union, with the support of the European Union and the United Nations. That concept of operations, which was adopted unanimously, helped establish the guidelines for the deployment of the international force.

I would also like to remind you that resolution 2085 (2012) of December 20, 2012, was the third resolution with regard to the Malian crisis, following resolution 2056 (2012) of July 5, 2012, and resolution 2071 (2012) of October 12, 2012.

Honourables members, ladies and gentlemen, the Government of the Republic of Mali, in accordance with the Malian people's virtues of peace and dialogue, has always shown its willingness to establish a dialogue with its children who have lost their way in order to find a peaceful solution to the crisis, while respecting the integrity of the national territory, national unity, the preservation of the republic's secularism and the principle of pluralistic democracy.

It was against that backdrop that contracts were established between government representatives and MNLA and Ansar Dine rebels, under the authority of ECOWAS mediator, His Excellency Blaise Compaoré, of Burkina Faso. Those two groups officially declared, following the meeting held on December 4 of last year in Ouagadougou, that they were abandoning armed violence and would commit to a process of political negotiation. However, the Ansar Dine group said it wanted to continue to apply sharia law in the Kidal region only.

It was in a context of re-established dialogue and trust among the parties that the Ansar Dine group, with the support of MUJAO and AQIM, launched an extremely violent attack on the very withdrawn positions of the Malian army in the south, in Mopti, on January 10, 2013 and in the west, in Diabali, in the Office du Niger zone.

The very decisive intervention of the French army, on January 11, 2013, at the request of the republic's acting president, helped not only stop the advance of the jihadist terrorist groups toward the south, but also liberate the cities of Timbuktu and Gao in three weeks.

It would be a euphemism to say today that the French army's intervention in support of the Malian army has saved the state, the secularist and democratic Republic of Mali.

However, we should not be claiming total triumph. As the President of the French Republic said so well during his visit to Mali, last week, the terrorists have been driven out of the above-mentioned cities, but terrorism has not yet been defeated in northern Mali.

Moreover, the implementation of resolution 2085 was accelerated once France began to fight alongside the Malian army. Today, the deployment of AFISMA is moving ahead gradually, and its headquarters have been set up in Bamako, Mali's capital.

I would like to use this opportunity to address, on behalf of the President of the Republic of Mali and the Malian people, my deep thanks to the government of Canada for its logistical support in Operation Serval, but also for its generous contribution announced at the AFISMA funding parties meeting, held on January 29, in Addis Ababa.

Honourable members, ladies and gentlemen, to overcome the political crisis, the Malian National Assembly adopted the governance road map, on Monday, January 28, 2013. That road map comprises two components: the restoration of the country's territorial integrity through the recapture of the north, and the organization of transparent and credible general elections.

According to the road map, a general election will be held by July 31, 2013, in order to permanently return to constitutional order.

The road map also contains a major component on national reconciliation through dialogue, an important virtue of the Malian people reconfirmed by the republic's acting president during the visit of the President of the French Republic, His Excellence François Hollande. His statement was along the following lines:

Our guiding principle is to accelerate and not to compromise national reconciliation—the reconciliation of northern communities, southern forces and the whole Malian nation. We see that as a historical duty, and there will be no complacency. Let all those who have Mali in their heart come; we extend our hand to them! Let all those who are not part of separation plans, terrorism, drug traffic and organized crime join us, thus abandoning their fantasies to embrace a necessary and desirable unified existence!

Given the immensity of the needs that require significant funding, which is above the government's capacities, the road map recommends using the support of technical and financial partners through a round table in the future.

In closing, I would like you to agree with me that the situation in Mali is a manifestation of security issues in Sahel, and that it must therefore be subject to international involvement through the appropriate UN mechanisms. So taking action is urgent, to alleviate Malians' suffering and also to prevent a similar, if not much more complex, situation for the peoples of the Sahel region, even the rest of the world.

Taking action is also urgent because the criminal and terrorist activities in northern Mali and the security risks those actions pose for the whole sub-region are a serious threat to the rest of the world.

Finally, Mr. Chair, it is urgent to take action in order to resume the co-operation with our bilateral and multilateral partners and strengthen our republic, founded on secular and democratic values. With regard to that, the conclusions drawn at the meeting of the support and follow-up group on the situation in Mali, held in Brussels on February 5, 2013, are fairly encouraging. We hope that development co-operation will resume in the coming weeks.

Today, our people are experiencing great hardships. However, Malians have not lost hope, as they don't doubt the support of other nations, such as Canada, which you represent here.

Malians from both the north and the south legitimately expect your active solidarity in helping them weather this crisis. Malians know that you can help, and they expect you to take decisive and assiduous action. This is about the safety and stability of our sub-region, Africa and the whole world.

Thank you for your kind consideration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Ambassador.

We'll now turn it over to the ambassador of France, His Excellency Ambassador Zeller.

[His Excellency Philippe Zeller, Ambassador of the French Republic to Canada, Embassy of France]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen members of the committee, Madam Ambassador and dear colleagues, thank you for inviting me. Thank you for extending this invitation at the same time as the one to my colleague from Mali. We stand in solidarity and partnership during this period.

Mr. Chair, pursuant to the analysis, statements and illustration provided by President François Hollande, who, as Madam Ambassador of Mali mentioned, visited that country's cities of Timbuktu and Bamako last Saturday, February 2, 2013, I would like to remind you that France's role in the current situation alongside Mali has three components. The first two components were just perfectly explained and illustrated by my colleague.

The first component has to do with Mali's political evolution. When it comes to that, France is pleased with the current democratic transition. The road map adopted by the Malian National Assembly on January 29 announces an election. President Traoré has said that the election will be held by July 31 of this year. That is great news. In the spirit established by the UN's resolution 2085 last December, a north-south dialogue will begin between, if I may use president Traoré's words, Malians and Sahelians, the river people and the dune people, and all signs and portents regarding that are extremely positive.

At this especially difficult and delicate time, France—like Canada and Mali's other partners and friends—is closely monitoring the human rights situation. President Hollande emphasized the role, presence and importance of a major institution like the International Court of Justice in those kinds of circumstances, alongside Malian legal institutions. As my colleague pointed out, there is an international support and follow-up group on the situation in Mali, which brings together all the stakeholders, major international organizations, such as the European Union, the United Nations, the World Bank, the African Union and ECOWAS. That group has already met on three occasions—in Abidjan, in Bamako and, two days ago, in Brussels—with 45 delegations.

That was the first component, the political one.

The second component has to do with the humanitarian side and the reinstatement of a policy on aid and development for Mali. Currently, two million people are affected by food insecurity in Mali and, overall, close to twenty million people are affected in the whole region. However, it is of key importance to help Mali and the Sahel countries acquire a new capacity that will allow them to reinstitute a policy on economic development and the fight against trafficking. France, through its development agency, and Europe, through the European Development Fund, have recently announced that development assistance could potentially be as high as it was before the crisis, or about 250 million euros.

In addition, in order for those two components—the political component, perfectly described by my colleague, and the humanitarian and development assistance component—to resume over the next few months, the country's security and military situation must obviously become stabilized and clarified. In the second part of my introductory remarks, I would like to tell you a bit about the military situation.

That is also divided into three components. Obviously, the first component is French involvement. Operation Serval enables French and Malian troops to help Mali gradually regain its territorial integrity. I won't repeat the facts, as everyone knows them by now. The decision to launch an operation on January 10 and 11 of this year was based on the request by the Malian president and President Hollande. That operation is ongoing, and we can say today—as our presidents said in Timbuktu and Bamako last Saturday—that it is especially effective.

A series of air strikes have been launched since January 11. They are still ongoing. Since January 31, there have been 135 sorties of French airplanes or attack helicopters, but there have also been ground deployments. As of today, there are 4,000 French soldiers on the ground. That will be the maximum. The French minister of defence stated two days ago that we will not exceed that number. Obviously, 4,000 soldiers on the ground is a significant contribution. That has made it possible, with the support of Malian forces, to recapture all the cities along the Niger Loop, and as far as Kidal today.

Does this mean that military operations are completed? No, there is still some resistance, in urban proximity—as you have seen in the many media analyses currently available—but also in Mali's northern region and the extreme north. That's a mountainous region that has not yet been secured and is probably being used by narcoterrorists for withdrawal. President Hollande said that France's military intervention would go as far as securing that northern part of the country.

To carry out this engagement, we have received logistical support from a number of partner countries in Europe, such as the United Kingdom, Denmark, Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands and Spain, but also some countries outside Europe, such as Canada—and I will come back to this in my conclusion—and the United States.

Operation Serval, which also enables the Malian army to help recapture and secure the territory, is not a permanent operation. As my colleague mentioned, AFISMA, the International Support Mission to Mali and Malian forces will gradually take over. The deployment so far has been very satisfactory, as we are close to about 4,000 soldiers, of which some 2,200 come from ECOWAS countries—and we can come back to this if there are any questions—and 1,800 come from Chad. Those forces are now on Malian soil and are ensuring security. In a way, they are taking over for the French and Malian troops in cities where peace has been established, such as Diabali or Gao, which is currently being secured by Nigerian troops.

Finally, a third component is currently being implemented. I'm talking about the European component of support to Malian forces. We call it EUTM, or the European Union Training Mission. Once again, some things are currently taking place, as this European mission was officially launched two days ago. It will be implemented next Tuesday, February 12, in Bamako, with an initial staff of 70 military members. However, it should reach a total of 500 European soldiers, with just over 150 trainers. Of the 27 European countries, 15 will be contributing to that mission, including France as the lead nation, with about 200 people.

Obviously, that implies costs, which in turn imply commitments. For instance, the French minister of defence has stated that France has spent about 70 million euros in additional costs since the beginning of operations. As part of implementing resolution 2085, calls for contribution were launched to support the inter-African force, AFISMA, and to help rebuild the Malian army. We are talking about training and equipment. That was the objective of the donator conference for Mali held in Addis Ababa on January 29 of this year. According to estimates, that conference led to promises of support for both military operations and Malian armed forces, but it also resulted in at least 377 million euros in humanitarian support. The African Union has even estimated that the figure was about 450 million euros.

That is our action, as a coherent whole.

In closing, allow me to state that the French involvement, in support of Malian armed forces and with their assistance, put an end to terrorist sanctuaries that were a direct threat to the integrity and future of not only Mali and Sahel, but also Europe, as we are 1,500 km away from the Mediterranean.

Moreover, we have greatly appreciated the assistance of Canada, which contributed a C-17 aircraft. At first, it was for a one-week period, which has been extended until February 17. I want to insist on the fact that this contribution was key also because Canada got involved extremely quickly. On Tuesday, January 5—and I want to point out that the operation received the green light on January 11—the aircraft was leaving Canada, and it was ready for action on Thursday, January 17, which was exactly when we needed to send a great deal of equipment and troops from France.

To wrap up my conclusion, I would like to reiterate some of the statements President Hollande made on February 2 of this year. He said that what was at work was obviously assistance and support for Mali, as well as the rebuilding of Mali's territorial integrity, sovereignty and democratic life. In addition, beyond Mali, Western Africa and Sahel, the relationship between Africa and Europe, between Africa and all of its partners was at work to ensure the future of this Africa. We need the support of the international community to achieve that. I believe that Canada stepped up when its support was needed in the face of a challenge as important as Africa's future and development.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Ambassador.

What we're going to do is we'll start over on my left-hand side with the opposition—seven minutes, sir—and then we'll move over to the government and Mr. Dechert.

Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by thanking our guests for participating in our committee's meeting.

My first question is for Ambassador Zeller.

Ambassador, as you know and have mentioned, on January 15, Canada made a cargo aircraft available to France. How much longer will you need our support in that area?

[H.E. Philippe Zeller]

Mr. Dewar, the Canadian government decided to lend us the aircraft until February 15. The French authorities have found that date to be entirely suitable. That period has not yet expired, and it is very suitable for that aircraft to be placed at our disposal until that date.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay.

In what other areas do you want Canada to become involved? Would it be in the areas of human rights, the economy, refugee assistance? What you think the overall needs are? What specific needs could Canada's contribution meet?

[H.E. Philippe Zeller]

Of course, I don't want to speak on behalf of either the Canadian authorities or the Malian authorities. That decision comes down to the bilateral relations between Mali and France. I would simply like to say that Canada—and we have said so already—was one of the 70 countries and institutions in Addis Ababa and one of the 45 countries that announced $13 million in assistance at that time.

Everyone had an opportunity to talk about the way they planned to help Mali. On that occasion, France announced that it would contribute 47 million euros to support both the Malian forces and AFISMA. That is our priority, and we especially appreciate that, in the current circumstances, other countries are announcing assistance to development or to humanitarian aid.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Madam, regarding the assistance we are providing, do you think that the respect of human rights is the most important priority, or is it rather refugee assistance? What kind of a role do you think Canada should play going forward?

[H.E. Traoré Diallo]

I don't really understood your question.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

What do you think Canada's role should be in the future? Do you think our role should focus primarily on human rights?

[H.E. Traoré Diallo]

Thank you, Mr. Dewar.

Canada is already involved in that area, as part of another bilateral co-operation agreement. Canada has already done a great deal for Mali in the area of human rights.

That is all I can say in response to your question. Even before the war started, Canada was already supporting Mali in terms of humanitarian assistance, and our country appreciates that.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

How do you view Canada's role when it comes to furthering democracy? Do you think Canada could play a role in the reconciliation between the north and the south?

[H.E. Traoré Diallo]

Thank you, Mr. Dewar.

The support of any country is welcome. As for national reconciliation, we are asking for the support of all the nations around the world. What does national reconciliation depend on? It depends on the development of northern regions as well. That has been done. That's a desert area. Mali is already pleased to be one of the core countries for Canadian assistance. We cannot ask for more. We are already among those countries.

Canada, as usual, can support us in any way it wants. That is a matter of a state's sovereignty. We cannot ask for more. We already have our bilateral co-operation intervention zones. That is very appreciated by both countries. The relationship between Mali and Canada is very good. If DFAIT wants to do anything else, that depends on Canada's sovereignty.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

What other needs do you foresee? Would we be talking about humanitarian aid, assistance to democratic development?

[H.E. Traoré Diallo]

Mali has paid a high price to establish democracy, and that is why it knows its value. Any country—and not only Canada—that wants to help us in terms of democracy will be welcome in Mali.

Mali has not hidden the price it has paid to bring that democracy, in 1991. The whole world knows about that. I don't mean to brag, but before I came here, I was with the UN. Mali's democracy was used as an example there. It was an exemplary democracy, which was recognized by the whole world. I was a member of the UN advisory committee in charge of governance projects.

We would like to go back to how things were before terrorists sidetracked us. We want to go back to the beginning. Any contributions will be welcome.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

I am going to turn it over to Mr. Dechert.

Sir, you have seven minutes.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Excellencies, for being here today.

Madame Diallo, I just want to say, on my behalf and that of my colleagues and the Government of Canada, how much we are concerned about the people of Mali.

Over 20 years, as you know, there has been a very strong friendship between our countries. Canada has been a significant partner with Mali in the tremendous democratic development that you spoke of. We send our deepest condolences to all those negatively affected by the violence there and to those who are displaced, and we hope that the assistance that we have been able to provide is of some comfort to the people of Mali. We wish you and the people of Mali all the best in these difficult and trying times.

Can you, Ambassador Diallo, tell us a bit more about the dialogue that is happening now between your government and the Tuareg tribes and rebels in the north? I understand—I think you mentioned it earlier—that there are some peace negotiations going on. Can you give us an update on that, and can you explain for us the dynamics that exist amongst the various factions that are operating in the north of Mali?

[H.E. Traoré Diallo]

Thank you for the kind words you addressed to my country, my people and myself.

As for the ongoing dialogue, I have brought you the road map, which you can keep. Perhaps it could be photocopied and distributed to all members.

In northern Mali, or even in Mali's history, there was no issue between white people and black people. We were totally united. Historically speaking, that is the land of civilization, as its said in Africa. All races were welcome. We have lived together until recently. We were marrying Tuaregs. Some women were married to black people from the south, and Malian women from the south were married to Tuaregs from the north. That was never an issue.

Mali has agreed to hold a dialogue with the Tuaregs—or the rebels. They actually represent a small minority. As the Nigerian president said the other day in his speech on the RFI, the MNLA does not represent all Malian Tuaregs; it represents only a minority. The dialogue has already begun.

The Malian government said it would have a dialogue with anyone who does not have blood on their hands, who has not committed murder. In Aguelhoc, the throats of about one hundred soldiers were cut while their hands were tied behind their back. The case has been referred to the International Criminal Court. The government wants to hold a dialogue with anyone who is not part of that group.

I read to you part of my president's speech, but I can now discuss it further. Anyone whose hands are not bloodstained will be welcome to participate in that dialogue.

As for those cases, they have already been referred. That is now out of Mali's hands. The International Criminal Court will now rule on that. That is no longer in our hands. We have passed on the cases involving people who have cut throats or killed people, raped nine-year-old girls, whipped people, committed extortions or disabled young people forever. Those cases will be referred to the International Criminal Court.

The dialogue is open to the rest of northerners whose hands are not bloodstained, who were with us, who were Mali's prime ministers or ministers. There have been many Tuareg ministers and presidents of associations who have always benefited from positive discrimination. In Mali, people have to go through a competition to become members of the public service. Tuaregs can join the public service where they wish. They look for services that suit them, advantageous services where they can make money. They choose where they want to go, and that is where they are sent.

If they are lieutenants in the rebellion, they enter the Malian army with the same rank, without any training or anything like that. The Malian government has accepted all this.

They have been ambassadors. I have a friend, who is now part of the rebellion, who was a government minister in the past, while I was a simple analyst in charge of records within foreign affairs. She was already a government minister. She was neither more highly educated nor stronger than me. I was in charge of records and she was appointed minister simply because she was a Tuareg. All that has been accepted in the past.

The dialogue will continue. According to some rumours, international organizations have apparently said that extortion has been committed. Even the Malian president and the minister of defence have talked about this. All Malians are aware of this. It is part of the road map, a copy of which I will leave you. They said that anyone caught committing extortion against northern nationals will be taken to court in Mali. The army has already been informed of that, and it is taken for granted.

As for the Tuaregs, the positive discrimination they....

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Is it fair to say, Your Excellency, that you're optimistic about the peace negotiation and reconciliation process in the northern part of Mali?

[H.E. Traoré Diallo]

Of course I am optimistic—even very optimistic. By nature, Malians are a people with a passion for peace. It is know that we are a peaceful people. We have never had such problems in the past. We were united. These people are outsiders who represent only themselves; they represent nothing. The MNLA calls itself indépendantiste. However, Tuaregs account for only 3% of the northern regions, and MNLA members, who are calling for independence, represents only a small minority of that 3%. The great majority of Tuaregs want to remain with the Malian government. They consider themselves Malians. One Particular Tuareg has been the second vice-chair of the Malian National Assembly for 20 years, and every chance he gets—Strasbourg or elsewhere—he contradicts the MNLA. He has been vice-president of the Malian National Assembly for 20 years as a Tuareg.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

One short question?