Evidence of meeting #68 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Every one of our icebreakers except one, the Terry Fox, carries helicopters in the Arctic. They are coast guard-owned and are operated by Transport Canada pilots who become part of our crew.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
We had people from the Northwest Territories and Nunavut and Yukon here the other day, and they were talking about our deepwater port facilities. Are there any natural deepwater ports that you feel should be developed and which might help, going forward? Are there any specific ones that we should be looking at which might help not only in the opening up of the area but also might be beneficial in the case of an accident?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
I'll answer that.
Transport Canada has done some work through our Prairie and Northern Region in looking at where development is likely to happen going forward and where there are other transportation routes that you could look at, beyond a project-by-project basis.
Typically, a project looks at how to build a road from a mine to a particular port area, where there may be no port—that type of thing. We have done some studies and we're doing some work looking at where some of those areas are in which there may be an opportunity to look at what might be developed. These are studies, and we've put some of the information on our website.
So there are some studies out there about what kinds of things would logically happen and would make sense in terms of support more broadly. There are a few of these areas. In Coronation Gulf, I believe, there's a very good opportunity, potentially, but to take a decision to do such a development is another big step.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
The representative from the Northwest Territories we talked to suggested that there are plans for a northern road to be built to the Arctic. I would hope that the road would be done in conjunction with a deepwater port or something like that, rather than go to some place that has a big sandbar.
When it comes to land travel and sea travel and those types of things, are the various groups working together?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Yes. In fact, the studies that I mentioned were carried out in conjunction with the territorial governments and the communities. We look at the potential development and the timeframes—those would come in. But you also have to look at the community needs: at the existing communities and where they are located, how resource development opportunities that are coming could support community resupply—just what you are pointing out.
We do take this into account; it is collaborative work, done on our policy side.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Mines may not occasion the biggest chance of pollution; it's probably an oil spill or an oil and gas project. What is the projection for oil and gas exploration? Are those wells going to take place? I know that it took quite a while in Newfoundland and Labrador for those offshore projects, so are we looking 10, 20, or 30 years down the road?
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
On that side of things, I think it would be better for Natural Resources Canada to speak to the question. We don't have that kind of analysis. We know of a number of mining projects that are likely to come to fruition over the next 10 years. Those are things we're looking at very closely. We are also looking at the longer term, but we don't really have that kind of analysis.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
If there were a problem there, it would probably be with the ship that was taking it out. If there were an oil spill, it would be the fuel that is on the ship, etc.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Exactly.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
That's all the time we have. We're going to have to move over to Mr. Bevington for five minutes.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses here today. We appreciate your presentations.
Some of these things are very important. I was listening with great interest to what you said about oil spill recovery in ice-filled waters. Has there been some amazing technological development in the last three or four years that allows us to recover oil that has spilled in water with greater than 35% ice?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are skimmers. It's that kind of hands-on—
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
The technology wasn't good enough three or four years ago to do that kind of work. Is it now good enough, or is it simply the same thing?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I'm not sure what you mean by not good enough.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
We couldn't recover oil successfully in water with more than 35% ice in it. That was the figure given to us a number of years ago. Have you improved that capacity?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There is always research ongoing, worldwide. We draw on both Canadian research and international best practices. I wouldn't want to give you a percentage, but it's not something that's static. As new developments in technology or approaches are tested—
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Yes, it's very complex. It's not the same as—
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
It's not proven, and it has not been successful. Can you give me an instance in which a large oil spill has been collected in ice-filled waters successfully?
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
No. I can't give you an instance of a large oil spill in ice-filled waters.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Right, and that is a positive thing, in that there haven't been large spills.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Well, good.
Turning to shipping, there has been some concern about the development of an Arctic shipping code whereby we would look at specific types of ships, double-hulled and with certain types of practices associated. That would be a requirement for a fairly large international agreement, wouldn't it? If we were to go in that direction, we'd have to put a lot of effort in internationally to accomplish it.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
Yes. Canada is working now with the International Maritime Organization on a mandatory polar code. There was agreement to do that work and to prepare a package of proposed requirements.
This is based to some large degree on a voluntary set of guidelines already in existence. They cover a broad number of areas, including construction, what kind of rescue equipment to carry, and what kinds of personnel requirements should be established. We are proposing to look, in addition to what is being done at the International Maritime Organization, at some voluntary guidelines with our colleagues at the Arctic Council, under the chairmanship of Canada.
Yes, this needs a considerable amount of work.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT
Do you have some refits planned in the next couple of years for the icebreakers in the existing fleet?