Evidence of meeting #68 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
That's the debate. Obviously this is an international code, so the level at which you can get agreement of all parties is debatable, but we're certainly pushing for the same level of stringent standards. That's what our expectation would be because the impact of something that happens outside your waters, obviously that oil or whatever—the rescue requirements are beyond our 200 nautical miles.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much, Mr. Dechert.
We're going to move over to Mr. Eyking, sir, seven minutes.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Thank you, Chair.
And thank you folks for coming.
I have three or four questions. I think the first ones are more for DFO. Number one is, you mentioned the challenges of search and rescue, getting there and trying to...as the traffic increases. We've heard over the last while that some of the fixed-wing aircraft for search and rescue, I think they're called Buffalo fixed-wing aircraft, are 50 years old and it's hard to get parts for them. Are we using those same aircraft in that area? If we are, what is the long-term replacement of new aircraft for dealing with the rescue in the north?
11:30 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The aircraft you're referring to and all aircraft for search and rescue are DND assets. The coast guard does maritime search and rescue. We work obviously very closely with National Defence, but the responsibility for those assets is not ours. So I couldn't speak to....
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
What assets...? Because you guys are in the rescue business, what's your long-range prediction of new assets that are going to be coming? Do you have a sense of what you're going to be using in 10 years as the activity increases?
11:30 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I can speak to the maritime assets in that we have recently received money to renew our fleet. Having the John G. Diefenbaker, the polar icebreaker in the Arctic, for longer periods of time will help us predict where incidents will be depending on where the ice moves in, etc. As fishing, etc. continues through into October, November, and December, we'll be able to ensure that we in the Canadian Coast Guard have an asset available to assist. But it's a vast space, so we can't be everywhere.
As for the air assets, I know that DND is going through a process to renew their aircraft for search and rescue.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
So what you're going to be doing is strategically putting your icebreakers out where...
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
—where the activity is.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
On the assessment process for environment—and I know it's probably a Department of the Environment question, but Fisheries and Oceans would have a part to play—is there a different process if somebody wants to drill somewhere up in the Arctic and retrieve oil or gas? Is there a different process than other parts of Canada?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The National Energy Board is responsible for the drilling in the Arctic and I believe they are the same environmental standards and expectations. We're not involved in that sort of assessment. We respond as required.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
One of the big questions is what if something happens up there? We know what happened in the Gulf of Mexico with that oil spill and how hard it was to contain that even with no ice there. The breakdown of the oil particles happened better because of the temperature of the water. If you have a major spill up there—we're looking down the road, you can see more tankers coming through here, maybe loading up in Alaska and going to Europe or whatever with Chinese vessels, who knows— when those spills happen, does it cost twice as much? Is the challenge twice as hard as you would have in southern climates?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It's a very broad question. It would depend on the type of spill, the size of the spill, and where it occurred.
The ship-source pollution regime within Canada makes the polluter responsible. The polluter ultimately is the first line of defence against the spill and then coast guard and local volunteers would come in afterwards. There are too many variables. If it were a spill in ice versus a spill in open water, the size of the spill, and the type of substance spilled would all affect the response and the complexity.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
Just on that, if you have a spill with ice, chunks of ice, it's hard to put those whatever you call them around to get at the oil. Is there a different technology?
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
There are different techniques. We have an environmental response group that focuses on response in the Arctic in our central and Arctic region and they train to respond to that kind of oil spill.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
My next question would be to Transport.
I have a map here and it shows the different routes. You have the Northwest Passage, the northern sea route, and then I think there's one that's the trans-polar sea route. It seems like the route takes you right behind Iceland and almost takes you right close to the North Pole and then down to the Bering Strait. Is that a route that they're using now or is it a submarine route because how would you get through all that ice very close to the North Pole? So you have no knowledge about this trans-polar sea route?
11:35 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
That's not the other name for the northern sea route. I have another name for the northern sea route.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
There are four sea routes, shipping routes, Arctic shipping routes here. One almost goes right over the top. I'm just wondering why that's ....
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
In the chart we've provided, we resupply that far up, in Eureka. That chart shows one of the routes that one of our heavy icebreakers would take in the middle of summer to do community resupply.
11:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
They do go that far up north.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS
My second question, to Transport, is what are your projections of activity for the next 10 or 20 years, assuming that climate change is going to continue and that the route is going to open? Where do you see the main activity? Would there be vessels coming out of Europort, out of Europe and going through to Japan that way? Would there be mostly American vessels? Or is it going to be everybody coming through here?
We're looking 20 years down the road, and if climate change happens as it is happening, what kind of activity do you foresee? Right now you're only stating 30 or 40 ships, but let's assume that you have a seaway similar to our seaway or the Panama Canal; what are your projections, and how are you going to deal with it?
11:35 a.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group, Department of Transport
That's a very good question. Projections are always very difficult to do, and in this particular case they're even more difficult. The variability on the tourist and the eco-cruise and pocket cruiser side is increasing slowly, and I expect it would continue to increase, but the specifics of this would relate very much to the economics, etc.
Concerning the resource development side, the number of larger ships that would start to be seen on a more regular basis is so dependent on those projects moving ahead on certain schedules. And we work on those schedules; we look at the layout. This is part of what I referred to at the beginning about looking at some of the corridors. Where do we see development as most likely to happen, and in what timeframe?
The potential is huge, but the actuality is quite slow.
I think it's important to also reinforce the point that was made earlier. The risk is so substantial in terms of unpredictability, with these more open areas and with climate change impacts. The risk is actually more undefined, so there is a significant impact on insurance and the capability of the vessels that want to operate in these areas to do so with sufficient liability insurance, etc.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
That's all the time we have, Mark; I'm sorry.
We're going to start a second round.
Mr. Schellenberger, you have five minutes, please.
February 28th, 2013 / 11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Gary Schellenberger Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to have you folks here today.
A number of years ago I had the opportunity to tour the coast guard facilities in Quebec City. I had quite a thorough tour. I was there probably for two hours. At that particular time I was told that I was the first member of Parliament to tour that facility in quite some time. That was about nine years ago now. I got a very intensive look at what the coast guard does, at some of their assets, and at the way they are set up. I was quite impressed with what was there and I understood at that time some of the shortfalls that existed.
I have one thing to ask concerning the north that may be a direct question for the coast guard. Does the coast guard have its own helicopters, or do they work through DND or something else?
