Foreign Affairs Committee on April 30th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Good morning.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4) on the main estimates for 2013-14, we have both ministers here today. We have the Honourable John Baird, Minister of Foreign Affairs. Welcome, sir. We also have the Honourable Diane Ablonczy, the Minister of State of Foreign Affairs (Americas and Consular Affairs). Thank you both for being here.

We have William Crosbie, and Morris Rosenberg, who is deputy minister. Welcome. We also have Mr. Patel who is here as well from Foreign Affairs.

Thank you all for being here.

We're going to turn it over to you, Ms. Ablonczy, for your opening statement, and then we'll go to Mr. Baird, then we'll go round the room for the next hour asking some questions.

Ms. Ablonczy, welcome, and the floor is yours.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Minister of State of Foreign Affairs (Americas and Consular Affairs)]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and colleagues. It's good to be here with you.

As you know, I support Minister Baird in two areas, in the Americas and also in consular affairs. I'll give you a brief overview of our Americas work first.

Recognizing the importance of our own hemisphere, you may recall that Prime Minister Harper made the Americas a foreign policy priority in 2007. So here we are, six years on, and I can tell you that our engagement in the region is very strong. We remain deeply committed to the three pillars of the Americas' strategy, which is to a more prosperous, a more secure, and a more democratic hemisphere. Hélène and I were talking earlier about how important each of those three pillars are. It's like a three-legged stool, without one of those pillars the stool tips over. Canada is working with our partners to increase economic opportunity, to strengthen security in institutions, and to foster lasting relationships, because that is the way people work together.

I can also tell you that I believe we've achieved concrete results in each of these areas. On increasing economic opportunity, the Americas, as big emerging markets, of course present great opportunities for Canada. We have more free trade agreements in the Americas than in any other region of the world—in fact, with the rest of the world combined—and we continue to work hard to increase trade and investment throughout the hemisphere. I should say we really believe this kind of economic growth and economic dynamism is going to bring greater social supports to countries in the Americas, and greater equality, which is a real issue for many of our neighbours.

Most recently, Canada gained observer status in the Pacific Alliance. For those who don't know, this is a very new trade agreement begun by Mexico, Peru, Chile, and Colombia, and Canada is an observer to that alliance now. We also contributed greatly through our Canadian companies to a $600 million, world-class international airport in Quito, Ecuador. I had the pleasure of being there to see that launched. This past February, I also was privileged to announce a coming into force of the latest free trade agreement in the Americas, the one with Panama. Panama is a country that boasts one of the fastest-growing markets in our hemisphere. It's also a strategic gateway to Latin America. You may be interested to know that our trading relationship with Panama increased by 62% in less than four years, so this agreement is going to open even more doors.

Strengthening security in institutions, increasing economic opportunities, as I mentioned before, require peace and stability. Security and governance challenges in the Americas continue to pose significant threats, locally of course, but also to Canada because we're so interconnected as a hemisphere. We've been working with our neighbours to jointly address the region's security challenges, especially fighting transnational organized crime and drug trafficking. We have a number of projects along this line, and I'll mention one. A couple of months ago I was in Costa Rica. We support the national police school there. We gave them new equipment, helmets, bulletproof vests, GPSs, and vehicles, so they can do their work better.

In Guatemala, we contributed state-of-the-art forensic equipment and training, and this has really helped to achieve results in Guatemala. This is not just because of what Canada has done, but together we've helped increase the crime resolution rate from 5% in 2009 to 30% last year, a very significant change.

Building and nurturing relationships with partners in the Americas is the foundation for engagement. The Americas, more than any other part of the world, really rely and put value on trusted relationships and personal ties, so we work hard to build those. As many of you know, Canada is very well regarded throughout the region.

Just a little bit on consular then, my other mandate from Minister Baird. Enhancing safety awareness for Canadians abroad is the priority of our consular activities. As you know, Canadians love to travel. We took 59 million trips out of the country last year, and that's with a population of around 33 million to 34 million. We really work hard to provide Canadians with timely and accurate information, and of course, high-quality consular services.

Fortunately, most trips go off without a hitch. They are hugely enjoyable for travellers. But even with the best preparation and advice, some Canadians do encounter difficulties. In fact, in 2012, more than 235,000 consular cases were opened. We work closely with other countries to work as quickly and effectively as possible when Canadians are caught in emergencies abroad.

I do consular outreach trips to the region. The last one was to Asia, which is a region that hosts hundreds of thousands of Canadian visitors, residents, and students each year. We meet with counterparts to discuss how we can better work together to resolve issues as they arise.

I want to now say something about travel.gc.ca. How many of you have ever looked at that website? We have a couple. I have to confess I was not familiar with that website before I took this job, so if you're not, you don't have to feel bad. Well, maybe you should, but I felt bad too. It's a tremendous resource for Canadians and we work very hard to make this a top-notch website.

We just relaunched the website, and it now incorporates information from all government departments, from Health, Agriculture, and Trade, so it's really a one-window information portal for travelling Canadians. We have had good response from Canadians to the new website. We had over three million Canadians visit the website since it has been revamped, and that's an increase of 21% over 2012. The number of separate visitors to the website rose by over 90%. We're very happy about that.

We also have a mobile app now for the website. The users of the mobile app have increased by over 100%. I asked, “Is it from 1% to 2%, or what?” So here's the number in case you're as curious as I am. It's from over 9% to over 19%. We still have a ways to go, but it's still significant growth.

We have also streamlined the registration of Canadians abroad service on that website. That allows people to register so we know where they are, and if there's some disaster or unexpected political upheaval, we can send them information about how to keep themselves safe. The registration has increased since November by 46% because we made it easier to use that resource.

We're also using new social media channels and kind of dragging ourselves into the 21st century. We really saw how that worked with the Boston bombing earlier this month. We have quite a few followers on our travel.gc.ca Twitter account, and the tweets we sent out about consular contact information, in case any Canadians needed support or assistance, were retweeted 2,400 times. We were able to amplify the reach of that message to a total of 2.3 million impressions just through Twitter, so we're pretty excited about that.

The Emergency Watch and Response Centre responded to about 500 calls from Canadians who were looking for information about their friends or loved ones. We had an unfortunately sad situation, but an opportunity to test how responsive we were able to be. We were very happy with the results.

So these are key services that really do support Canadians in need. I'd encourage you, colleagues, to spread the word about these tools to your constituents.

In conclusion, as you have seen, our engagement in the Americas is benefiting Canadians and our hemispheric neighbours. We're also committed to ensuring that Canadians are well prepared to ensure their own safety when they're abroad and that they receive the support they need when challenges and emergencies arise.

I thank you, Mr. Chairman and colleagues, for having the opportunity to be with you today. Minister Baird and I are very pleased to respond to your questions after you get a little more information from my colleague. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you very much, Minister.

It's a real pleasure to be here to update you on our government's foreign policy in action—our principled foreign policy focusing on protecting and promoting Canadian interests and Canadian values around the world.

As I've done in the past, I'll begin by focusing on some of the most pressing issues facing the international arena, particularly in the area of the security challenges that we face. I spent the better half of last month visiting a number of vitally important countries in the Middle East and in various meetings with our key international partners: the G-8, NATO, and the Commonwealth.

Two topics have come up again and again: the deteriorating situation in Syria and the increasing threat posed by Iran. In Syria the chaos and killing appear to have taken a barbaric new form. We've no reason to doubt reports from two of our closest allies—the United States and Israel—that the Assad regime appears to have used chemical weapons on the Syrian people recently. But I feel it's very important that we deal with facts as this would signal an unwelcome new phase in the Syrian crisis.

On April 7, our government announced a credit of up to $2 million to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to assist the United Nations-led investigation into the alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria. This unfortunately, though not suprisingly, continues to be blocked by the Assad regime. This is a regime that not long ago lost all legitimacy and humanity, and yet continues to sink to new lows. The Syrian crisis weighs heavily on the larger region. Its effects have created immense and urgent needs inside Syria and left its neighbours struggling to deal with the ever growing influx of refugees.

One camp in Jordan is now so large that if it were a permanent city it would be Jordan's fourth largest city. To put that into context, on a proportion basis that would be like the entire population of Canada going to the United States as refugees and the huge crisis that would pose on any country, let alone a small country such as Jordan.

Since January 2012 our government has provided almost $70 million to deal with the urgent and worsening humanitarian and security situation across the region. I will tell you what I've told my colleagues in the countries most affected: Canada will do more.

Colleagues, I must also tell you that there are real and growing fears in the immediate region, and more broadly, about the threat posed by Iran, especially if it were to develop nuclear weapons. Of course Iran's negative and nefarious influence on world affairs is well known and not new. That's why we and our international partners know that allowing Iran to weaponize its nuclear program—to hold the region and the world hostage as North Korea is attempting to do—is simply not on.

Let there be no doubt, Canada will continue to take strong action to isolate the regime in Tehran, prevent it from plying its trade of hate, fear, and terror, and hold it to account for its horrendous human rights practices, including the persecution of religious minorities and others.

Similarly, we continue to take a leadership role in addressing the threat posed by North Korea. Our sanctions are among the world's toughest. We work through the United Nations and other systems to deal with the threat while supporting our allies in working to protect our own citizens from potential harm.

In a complex and changing world I'm pleased to say that Canadians have much to be proud of. We continue to deepen bilateral relationships around the world, promote our values, and expand opportunities for Canadian businesses. This is no more obvious than during my recent trip to the Middle East where I visited Jordan, Iraq, the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Israel, and the West Bank.

While in Jordan I had the honour of inaugurating Canada's new embassy building in Amman. In Iraq I announced a new permanent Canadian diplomatic presence in Baghdad. For the first time Canada now has official observer status in the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation in Jeddah. Together with United Arab Emirates we launched the new joint business council, which is already identifying opportunities to enhance our commercial relations, allowing our people and our companies to benefit and contribute to both countries' prosperity.

Our government knows that the world is overflowing with new opportunities and that Canada must play an active role in order to strengthen its existing relationships and establish new ones. That is not a choice or an option; it is an economic necessity.

We are showing leadership, strengthening Canada's voice on the international stage and emphasizing our diplomatic presence in key areas of growth, while at the same time working on meeting our deficit reduction objectives.

We are achieving those results by making smart choices, working more effectively and using our international assets more strategically.

Wherever I go, I am pleased to find that Canada is held in high regard, even as a model for others. Our visibility on the world stage is clear and we are no longer taken for granted. I have every confidence this will continue with the Canadian International Development Agency, when it is merged with DFAIT to become the new Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development. This will only strengthen our efforts to protect and promote Canadian values and interests on the world stage. It will help us make the most of our international activities and investments. Let me assure you that Canada's commitment to poverty alleviation and humanitarian assistance is not in question here, and this question and this decision will have no impact on Canada's international assistance spending.

Our leadership in the area, such as through the Muskoka initiative, can only continue. Canada is bringing an integrated approach to bear, recognizing that in the globalized world there are economic opportunities connected to the freedom, development, and security of others.

Mr. Chair, I could go on and on, but I'd be very pleased to accept comments and questions from the committee and committee members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We're going to start with the opposition.

We'll have Mr. Dewar, for seven minutes, please.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both ministers for your comments today and for your presence today.

Minister Baird, I just want to start with a question about the direction of the government. You've laid out some of the most recent events in terms of the direction of the government. I am a little concerned because recently you were in places that some of us would suggest you should not have gone. I'm thinking of East Jerusalem and the coffee, and meanwhile you seem to be taking us out of places that we should be.

It's not just you. It's the government, in general. It's the foreign policy direction. We did pull out of Kyoto, and that was noted. The northern dimension partnership in health we have pulled out of. The United Nations World Tourism Organization we have pulled out of. The International Exhibitions Bureau we have pulled out of. The International Tropical Timber Organization we're out of. We are the only country in the world to pull out of the UN convention on desertification and drought. We have withdrawn diplomatic presence in parts of Africa—in Niger, Malawi, Gabon, Cape Town. We seem to be weakening our position on the cluster munitions. That's going to be in front of Parliament sometime soon.

We did not assist Turkey to the extent we should have when it came to Syria, and we don't have presence in Kurdistan. You mentioned you were in Baghdad. We have gone from a part-time person to a full-time person in the embassy of the U.K., but there is nothing in Kurdistan, which many people would suggest is a very strategic asset to have. The U.K., U.S., Germany, Japan, and France are present there.

Most concerning to many here in Canada is the response to UN special rapporteurs in delaying their access to Canada. I hope the visit of James Anaya is going to be more welcome. He is going to be here on indigenous peoples.

You'll appreciate the fact that I see our pulling out of things as actually getting Canada pushed out of other forums. I'm thinking here of the East Asia Summit, which happened last fall. I am concerned about the most recent news about the International Civil Aviation Organization, and of course, we lost our seat at the Security Council.

My question to you is this. When it comes to getting back in the game—I've just listed numerous things from which we have pulled away—are you intending to campaign for a seat on the UN Security Council? We now know that three European countries are, and this is for the seat that will be filled in 2014. If so, do you plan to change the strategy that I have laid out here? Seemingly, we are pulling away from the world, not engaging.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You can't make 20 statements and then expect to put a question on the end of it and not get a response to many of them.

We're pleased to have a full-time person engaged on the ground in Baghdad. I'd like to see us have something in Erbil, and we're working on that right now, particularly in the area of a trade commissioner to enhance our trade relationship. Our ambassador to Iraq does visit Erbil from time to time.

I'd welcome your thoughts on the value for Canadian taxpayers that you think they got from, to pick one, the World Tourism Organization. You brought this up. I'd be very pleased to hear what you thought Canada had benefited from in recent years on that.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You're the Minister; I'm asking the questions. Here's a simple question, Minister Baird, if I may.

Are you going to put a campaign together for a seat on the Security Council?

No, you're not, okay.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

But it is interesting that you brought up the issue of the World Tourism Organization—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But why not. Why are you not....?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

—and how we're retreating from the world.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Why are we not putting forward a campaign for the Security Council seat in 2014?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It is interesting that you would raise an issue of Canada retreating from the world. I'm going to challenge you, sir, to say anything that the World Tourism Organization has done for Canada in the last 20 years.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm going to challenge you to put forward the reason we're not putting forward a campaign for the Security Council seat.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You brought it up so you can't—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

If you want to obfuscate, that's your choice. You get to decide what you're going to say. I asked you a question about the Security Council.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I gave you a clear response.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

No, and why not?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're focusing on other priorities.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So you don't think it's important to be at the Security Council table. Minister Baird, right now, with issues like Syria and Iran, guess what the discussions are around the Security Council table? They're on Syria and on Iran. It is unprecedented for Canada to have lost a seat. We're looking like quitters here and you, sir, are looking like a quitter for not putting forward a campaign when three other countries are intending to go forward.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You don't launch campaigns on a few months' notice.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

No, it's a year, and we better get to it because three other countries have put forward their intentions. You're saying you're not going to, though. That's important to note. You're not intending for us to gain a seat at the Security Council. Is that the case?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You asked me that earlier, and I gave you a clear and unequivocal response.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's amazing.

Can I ask you about the estimates a bit more?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

But if I could also refer to.... You mentioned 20 issues and I wanted to mention a few.