Foreign Affairs Committee on Nov. 20th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Hétu, you have about one minute to answer that.

[Carl Hétu]

Thank you.

There are a few things. A lot of food is being provided by the Kurdistan government, the Iraqi government. The food comes in packages. It's not exactly what you always need. There's no baby food, baby formula, things like this that would help the youth. I mentioned a school. Thousands of children don't have any elementary or secondary schools, so we're investing right now to establish a temporary school system in the Kurdistan area for all those people.

A major problem is medical, dealing with the trauma, but people are sick like anywhere else in the world, so we're providing access to all the doctors who were in the other place. They are giving their time freely but they need to be established in a place to provide that, so there's a lot of attention on the medical, also housing and getting ready for winter: heating, blankets, clothing, better shelter. Those are the main points we're aiming at short term.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're going to start our second round. We're going to have time for two quick interventions. We'll start with Mr. Van Kesteren and then finish with Madame Laverdière.

Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thanks to the committee for this opportunity. I have served on this committee but it's been quite some time. It's a fascinating discussion.

I want to direct this question to either one of you. I wonder about this. You mentioned what's happening: the conflict, the history, and how we've come to this point. It appears to me that—it's obvious to all of us—this is not primarily an issue in the Middle East. It may have exploded there but we're seeing problems in northern Africa, West Africa, East Africa, and in Sudan, of course. There seems to be something else. I often wonder if we aren't addressing the elephant in the room and that is precisely this.

I've had the chance to travel extensively in Turkey and I've made some strong connections there. I serve on a Canada-Turkey parliamentary association. The reason that I'm passionate about those things is that Turkey plays such a large role. It had the capacity at one point, and I think still does, being primarily the only other democracy in the region other than Lebanon, to some degree, and of course, Israel. But when I was travelling with one of my Turkish friends, he referred to the Christian west and the Muslim countries, and I corrected him. I said it's not that. It's the secular west. We established long ago that we would allow secularism to be the platform on which we base our society. Is not this really a conflict between that struggle, the struggle of control, of releasing that? Of course, if we study Islam it's inclusive throughout society and isn't this really a struggle whereby they realize that if they allow that secularism to creep into their society they're going to lose that control? I wonder if either one of you could comment on that.

[Carl Hétu]

I'll let Father Mallon answer first.

[Father Elias Mallon]

I'm not sure of that. I think you put your finger on something important in that something is happening in the Muslim world. It's not just the Middle East, although the Middle East tends to be an engine that runs a lot of it.

I think it's more of a conflict of perceptions, actually, than of the Muslim world and the secular western world, because in many instances the secular western world can be far more pietistic than, for example, the Assad family or Saddam Hussein. They were quite secular people. I think it's more a war of perceptions, and what has happened is what the UN constantly refers to as a dialogue of civilizations that has broken down, and what we are overwhelmed with is the worst of the other. They are overwhelmed and sometimes manipulated by being shown the worst of western civilization, and we for our part get overwhelmed with some of the worst things that Muslims have done. That dialogue of civilizations really has to take place again because there's a mutual demonization that just goes nowhere except to more violence.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I find it astounding that we are always so quick—and I think rightfully so—to separate church and state, yet in Muslim societies it's part of their...yet we don't recognize that as being problematic.

[Father Elias Mallon]

Right now, for whatever reasons, and they're very complicated, intellectual life in the Middle East, Pakistan, and places like that in Islam has not really had a chance to develop for any number of reasons: colonialism or authoritarian regimes.

I was at a meeting several years ago, and this topic of church and state came up. There is a principle in Islam that Islam is din wa dawla; Islam is a religion and a nation. The conversation got very heated, and I sort of withdrew and then I said, “Well, excuse me, okay, we got Islam din wa dawla , what would you Muslims think about the expression Islam din watan?”, watan being a word for nation-state While they all agreed that Islam din wa dawla was not negotiable, but on the notion of Islam din watan, they said, “No, we don't know.”

I think what that provides is an opportunity for reflection on how Islam operates in a new situation in the modern world, and they have not had the opportunity yet to do the intellectual work in terms of philosophy, political science, etc., to develop a way to be Muslim in a modern pluralistic society.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Father. I'm going to have to cut you off. That's one short question with a very long.... We need for time for that.

We're going to turn it over to Madame Laverdière for a few minutes, and then I know Mr. Dewar wants to just get his motion on the table.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks also to the two witnesses for joining us today.

Thank you very much for the presentation. It was very interesting.

I have a few minutes only and I would like to ask Mr. Hétu a question.

You provide a great deal of humanitarian aid. Do you coordinate with other humanitarian organizations on the ground, such as the Red Cross or another organization?

[Carl Hétu]

We are a church organization. In Rome, there is a group of 20 Catholic organizations from around the world and discussing what is happening in Iraq, Syria and everywhere in the Middle East. We share the work.

As I said earlier, we have three offices on the ground. The offices do not work in isolation, but in cooperation with Caritas, which is one of the largest international movements. We also work with the United Nations, the Red Cross, the Red Crescent and many other organizations. We do not step on each other's toes. We know each other and we talk. Sometimes, there is a bit of friction and there are misunderstandings, but we are well coordinated overall.

[Hélène Laverdière, NDP, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

We fully understand the financial challenges that you are facing. We sometimes seem to forget long-standing crises, such as the one in Syria. It is very difficult.

Could you tell me where your funding comes from primarily?

[Carl Hétu]

Whether in the United States or in Canada, our campaigns are targeted completely to Canadians and Americans.

In Canada, my job is to raise the public's awareness as much as possible and to raise funds from foundations, dioceses, individuals and groups. So far, we have raised about $400,000 for Iraq.

Our organization has raised between $800,000 and $900,000 in the United States. Our two countries have already sent $500,000 to Iraq. Approximately $1.9 million has been sent to Syria over the past two years. We are doing what we can with the resources we have.

Almost $80 million from the Catholic church or nominally Catholic organizations has been sent to Syria over the past three years alone. Our contribution is a drop in the ocean compared to all the assistance provided by other nominally Catholic organizations in Europe and in the United States.

Clearly, we are not talking about other organizations. Governments, the United Nations and all the other groups also provide assistance. Specifically, we are talking about several hundred million dollars in aid to Syria. We are now seeing the same thing for Iraq, but the issue is figuring out how long it will take. We don't know. People are hesitant. We do not want to build things and then have everyone go home. Everything would have been in vain. It is all very difficult to evaluate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

To our witnesses, thank you very much for being here in Ottawa, and thank you to Father Mallon, who is in New York. Thank you both very much, gentlemen. We will let you go.

Just very quickly, Mr. Dewar wants to put a motion on the table, and then we're going to end.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thanks for the indulgence of the committee.

It's actually a motion on the supplementary estimates, which is part of our duty, as a committee.

I move:

That the Committee invite the Honourable John Baird, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and the Honourable Christian Paradis, Minister of International Development, to appear before the Committee regarding the Supplementary Estimates (B) 2014-2015 before December 5, 2014 and that this meeting be televised.

That's the motion.

I note that the estimates are December 5, and/or the last supply day that is three days before that. I'm not sure when the last supply day might be. It might be December 3, I believe. We don't know.

I want to move that motion to seek support from the government to invite the ministers for that purpose.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Anderson, go ahead.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

We're always willing to invite ministers. They will make their decisions. It's on fairly short notice. That is in two weeks. I'm sure they have their schedules set, but we can extend the invitation. I think the committee should see if they can fit that in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll have the invitation sent out tonight.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

It's a case of whether they can do that or not, but we certainly will invite them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

Shall we vote on the motion then?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're okay to send the invitation out.

Thank you very much.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.