Evidence of meeting #38 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was kurdish.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Assistant to the Chairman, Yezidi Human Rights Organization-International
The Iraqi government has got some of those kinds of airplanes. It would be pretty much hidden.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Okay.
To switch to the training piece, Madam Saeed said the Iraqis need training and I believe that to be true. It might not be the individual military skills that need training, but the ability to operate in a coordinated fashion as a division. There's a division size group of the Iraqi army, about 20,000, who could be put into the battle space relatively quickly, but they need training in my view. I'll ask your opinion. From what I know they need training in terms of coordinating, in terms of operating as an army. That's training on a higher level. That's more leadership training and so on.
Would you agree with that or do you think that's overstated?
9:45 a.m.
Assistant to the Chairman, Yezidi Human Rights Organization-International
I don't want to say I disagree, yet I don't want to say I agree totally because, as I said earlier, they have to be there as a Kurd nation. There are two divisions. You have to coordinate them together and have them agree on the same statement to get this mission done.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
That involves coordinating with other forces in the area. That is where the training is required; it's operating as an army or operating as an army in coordination with other armies.
9:50 a.m.
Assistant to the Chairman, Yezidi Human Rights Organization-International
It is indeed, without discrimination.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Rabbi Bulka, you mentioned at one point that we needed an international army to deal with situations like this. Who were you thinking would comprise that army, and who would lead it?
9:50 a.m.
As an Individual
If I had all the answers to that, I would have...it's not clear in my head. It's an idea that needs development. The natural place for this would be the United Nations. I don't see their movement in that. I think that anyone who steps up to the plate, who has international stature—and I certainly think Canada is qualified to do that —should...Somebody needs to take an aggressive lead in this to say we need this international force that on a moment's notice will be able to come in and stop tragedies.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I don't disagree with you. The UN has never been very good at any kinetic kind of operation.
Madam Saeed, you did mention, unless I misheard you, that you don't want help from the UN. Did I hear you correctly?
9:50 a.m.
Member of Iraqi Parliament, As an Individual
I'm not sure I'm blaming the UN, but I think their system is like that. It's somehow too late now. They are too late to provide their help. What I mentioned, or what I meant for you...we want your help to come directly to the refugees. We do not want it to be through the UN.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawn.
We're now going to start our third round, and Mr. Anderson is going to lead off.
You have five minutes, please.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Madam Saeed, I would like to ask you a question about your relationship with the Kurdish government.
Your people are spread out from your traditional area into Kurdish camps. What is your relationship with the Kurdish government? What work do you do with them and how does that work? How does that function?
9:50 a.m.
Member of Iraqi Parliament, As an Individual
Excuse me, I didn't hear you clearly.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Okay, I will repeat it.
I would like to know what your relationship is with the Kurdish government. Your people are spread out from your traditional area into the Kurdish territory. As a member of Parliament, you work to represent them. What is your relationship with the Kurds and their government? How do you work together?
9:50 a.m.
Member of Iraqi Parliament, As an Individual
My relationship...? I'm a member of Parliament from the Kurdish region in Baghdad. My relationship with my government, the Kurdish government, is so good, and my relationship with my fellow Yazidi people is so good. I'm trying to help as much as I can, both from the Iraqi government and from the Kurdish government standpoint, to help my people, the Yazidi people, who are all refugees now in the Kurdistan region.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
One of the things we have heard in the last few days as we have been having these hearings is that the past Iraqi government failed; that it discriminated against many different people.
How do you feel about the new government? Is it going to be open to all people and be able to work with all groups, including the Yazidis?
9:50 a.m.
Member of Iraqi Parliament, As an Individual
We hope that the new government will help more and that there will be a new beginning and a new future for Iraq, and of course for us as a minority, the Yazidi people.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I have a very short time, but can you tell me this: what does it mean to be a Yazidi? What is the importance of the mountain and your territory? Can you tell us a little bit about what it means to be Yazidi?
Perhaps, if I have time, I'll allow our other guests to answer that question as well.
9:50 a.m.
Member of Iraqi Parliament, As an Individual
Okay.
As you know, we did not choose to be Yazidi. We are born as Yazidi. I'm proud of that. Ours is the ancient religion. It's a peaceful religion; we have not harmed any person or anyone, until now. We live in peace with the Muslims, Christians, Yazidis, Kurds, and Arabs. We do not make any racism. We have been killed 74 times until now, as was mentioned. We are trying up to now to be peaceful and not to hurt anybody. All we want is to live peacefully in our land. We do not want to leave our land here where I was born, where my father was born, and where my grandfather was born. We want to stay here to live in our land peacefully again.
I'm so proud to be Kurd and I'm so proud to be Yazidi, and I want to stay in my country.
9:55 a.m.
Assistant to the Chairman, Yezidi Human Rights Organization-International
That mountain means a lot to us, just as Ms. Saeed said, because of the history that our ancestors built in it, not to mention the religious sites. There are 20 to 30 holy shrines in the mountain. The term Yazidi means “who gave me this life, who created me”. We are attached to that mountain because it's ours; we are the natives of that land that was known once as Mesopotamia, as much as the Assyrian and Sabi minorities were and are today. We are the natives of Iraq, and there is no way we will give up our homeland or hometowns to anybody. That is the last thing we will ever think of.
Thank you very much.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thanks, David.
We're going to go over to Mr. Dewar for five minutes.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you.
I'm glad to hear that. It was a good question by my colleague because I think people need to understand that this isn't about relocation. This isn't about being able to leave. This is where you are, your roots. As with my colleague Mr. Saganash, it's peoples of the land, and it's not about moving anywhere else. You are part of the land, and I think that's important for people to note.
I want to start with you, Mr. Haider. What I've heard today is extremely shocking, if what you're saying is true and based on fact. And I have no reason to challenge you on that, except we've heard other evidence at committee, or certainly when Mr. Garneau and I and the Minister of Foreign Affairs were on the ground. There were suggestions that there was aid getting to people, although we didn't get to Dohuk and other places, which we were encouraged by the UN, actually, to go to.
But what you're saying can lead to charges of war crimes, frankly. And what I want to be very clear about is if what you're saying is true, then what we need to be hearing from levels of government is that this needs to be investigated.
To that end, I suffered a bit of ridicule on our side of the House when I said that we needed to have people who are going to be on the ground to investigate war crimes. I was accused of wanting to send lawyers in to deal with ISIS. I have to say, the reason I was saying that was that, along with other supports, we needed to find out what was going on because war crimes absolutely are being perpetrated. But we need to understand who the actors are.
What you're saying, this evidence that you have, is important not only to share with us, but this has to go to the highest levels. What you're suggesting here is that with great caution, people were being told—and I'm going back to 2009 actually—that their minorities were being targeted. But what you're saying is very different. This is about saying there was evidence that ISIS was coming, and the people to protect were the forces on the ground, the Kurdish, and they left civilians, knowing that they were going to be killed, kidnapped, etc.
Is that what you're suggesting here?
9:55 a.m.
Assistant to the Chairman, Yezidi Human Rights Organization-International
When there is a coincidence, it might be once or twice, but not three or four times in a row. People went to the Kurdish authorities in the Sinjar area and asked if they needed any help or support. People were going to get recruited. They said, “No, no, go home. We have plenty. We have 12,000 peshmerga forces in and around the Sinjar area.” Twelve thousand? That's over a division, I do believe, or three divisions. Not to mention, three days before that, they took all these heavy machine guns out of the hands of Yazidi who were involved with the peshmerga.
10 a.m.
Assistant to the Chairman, Yezidi Human Rights Organization-International
I don't know why. I asked that question to the very same person who took them away.
Number three is leaving those people and not telling them. At least tell them the danger is coming. When you have three coincidences in a row, then there is something obvious that it's telling us. When you go back to May 2014, ask about the three major generals who fled Mosul City and handed it to ISIS. Where did they go? Where are they? They went to Erbil. Nobody questioned that. Where are they?
If you want to collect evidence, you do an investigation. You start from the smallest item and ask, “How did that happen?” And then you go back to the bigger picture and put this puzzle together piece by piece. You can't complete a picture with a teeny, tiny piece missing. You go back to the three major generals when they drove to Erbil instead of going back to their headquarters in Baghdad.
Thank you very much.