Evidence of meeting #114 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sudan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Save the Children Canada
In the rest of the region, Somalia is also not a stable area. There's lots of instability in the region. Uganda is generally a source of progressive views, but in the recent history, which we can dive into if you want and if we have more time, Sudan has been the principal actor stirring—
Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.
It's been disrupting things, and you talked about the need for security and stability as the number one factor. Every time they don't like something, they start being....
Are there other things we should be doing, first of all, just to bring security and stability?
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
I think it would be putting pressure on Sudan. I would caution using aid as a political bargaining chip. I think aid needs to be there to respond to the needs. I think a lot of trade and diplomatic pressure can really be put on a country like Sudan.
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
I think they want access to the Canadian markets, regional markets. This is why I mentioned that it needs to be a regional response. I think that's what Canada's role can be. These are interconnected economies. All the oil is in the south.
Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.
Yes, but let's be specific. If we want to put pressure on Sudan, aid is touchy because you end up hurting the people you want to help.
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
Yes.
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
My sense is around diplomatic pressure, particularly pressure on trade, and also looking at their oil.
Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.
They have a business community that could be hurt, and it supports the government. Is that what you're saying?
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
That's my sense. A lot of these countries, as they begin to stabilize, become a very attractive place for Canadian business. From a Canadian angle, if they're not stable—an insecure South Sudan does have an impact on north Sudan, but not as much—it isn't good for business in these countries.
That goes for Somalia as well. I met a lot of businessmen when I was in Somalia who wanted nothing more than stability so they could start to run their businesses.
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
Yes, Somali, but I think the same thing holds in north Sudan as well.
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
Well, some are supportive of the Sudanese government. Some may not be. Sudan itself is a pretty disparate and fairly clan-based area as well. There's lots of conflict even within Sudan.
Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.
In terms of working to achieve and maintain stability, you've put out three points. We need to go after these bad people and punish them. We need to work on education, specifically focusing on women. Then you said that malnutrition—
Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.
—food security is coming. You're saying that these three things need to be looked at simultaneously.
Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.
Mr. Dunbar, would you have something to add to that?
Director, Global Programs and Impact, International Operations and Programs, CARE Canada
For me it would be very, very similar. Look at some of the needs around women and sexual reproductive health. The point was mentioned that women are more likely to die in childbirth than they are to finish school. I think if we don't deal with some of those issues and some of the violence against women, then they won't be able to access education. I think we need to be dealing with that at the same time.
Mr. Michael Levitt (York Centre, Lib.)
Thank you very much.
We have to finish a little early today, so we'll go to a shorter round of questions.
We'll go to MP Saini and then to MP Aboultaif.
November 5th, 2018 / 5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you very much for being here. I have two questions and only four minutes, so I hope you'll work with me.
First, you keep mentioning Uganda and Sudan. With Sudan, we know that the president right now has been charged with war crimes. Uganda, we know, has told President Kiir that if there are any UN sanctions against arms, an arms embargo, he would skirt those. How will those two countries provide any kind of stability to South Sudan?
Chief Executive Officer, Save the Children Canada
The armed groups in Sudan need outside help. The two powerful neighbours who can exert immediate pressure are Sudan and Uganda. Having those as a guarantor, and not undermining, is bound to help.
Are all of the actors in the neighbourhood good actors? No. You're dealing with who's actually in control and who can exert pressure. Behind this accord, there's the U.S. and there's the U.K. and a whole bunch of global powers who think this is a way to ensure a level of security in the country. It's not a place where you can choose your partners. You have to choose who's there.