Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2019

[Jati Sidhu, Liberal, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Since you have the floor, Jean-Paul, you mentioned in your opening remarks that the U.S.A. has rather dropped down on the world stage when it comes to playing a leadership role. The second comment you made was that you need money.

In my little experience in life, money cannot buy everything. I want to know where Canada fits into this puzzle. Is this a leadership role? Is this a consistent commitment going forward for the next 50 years, as Mr. LaRose-Edwards said?

Where do you want to see Canada going with this?

[Jean-Paul Ruszkowski]

I think we should take leadership, and we should put in the resources; in other words, walk the talk. I think what we're doing in Venezuela.... I want everybody here to realize that this is the very first time in the history of Latin America that Latin American leaders go to talk and say to the president of Venezuela, “You must leave.” This is something that Canada can really take credit for.

[The Chair]

Thank you.

We're going to take a break, but we're going to do two last three-minute questions, from MP Vandenbeld followed by MP Kusie. Then we're going to have to do our drafting instructions or this wonderful report is not going to be moved on.

MP Vandenbeld, you have three minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

In the interest of full disclosure, 19 years ago my first international posting to Bosnia was with CANADEM, and 14 years ago I was a program officer with the Parliamentary Centre and actually more recently served on the board. I am, then, very familiar with and well aware of the excellent and good work that you do, and I think that leveraging it is going to be one of the goals of this committee.

The question I have is about the need for some sort of overarching entity that would fund this kind of work but also be a clearing house and be able to fill that gap.

When this started being talked about 20 years ago with Democracy Canada and then leading up to the 2007 study, the Parliamentary Centre at the time, CANADEM, and I think IDRC, Rights and Democracy and a number of organizations vehemently fought against it. I remember that there was talk of the council.

I wonder, if we had actually implemented this in 2007.... I know that Rights and Democracy is gone, and I think your two organizations are largely in existence today, in a much smaller capacity, because of private donations and outside funds. Would things have been different today for you and for some of the organizations that have disappeared, had we actually implemented this in 2007, with a funding mechanism separate from the whims of governments back and forth?

[Paul LaRose-Edwards]

I think it would have been worse, because they would have sucked up all the funds.

If it were going to be a National Endowment for Democracy such as they have in the States, whose job is to disburse funds, that's a separate case.

This is where my ambivalence is about having this brand new agency: the time and effort to create it and to get the funding for it. If a major part of its role is to fund organizations in Canada to do good work out there, then all the effort to set it up makes sense, particularly if it has guaranteed funding.

You could say, for example, that 10% of all foreign assistance funding will automatically go to this foundation and it will then figure out the best ways of spending this money—some of it with the UN, some with Canadian NGOs big and small—but the foundation itself would not carry out its own programming. I think that would make sense.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Jean-Paul.

[Jean-Paul Ruszkowski]

I think we should be open-minded in the sense that we must preserve the assets we have and support them. That will be the first signal that the Government of Canada is really putting in resources and making sure there's a Canadian brand.

That doesn't exclude the possibility of studying and analyzing how we could create an umbrella organization, as you described it, Anita. Obviously, we should not forget that democracy development is really a tool for our foreign policy. People who think otherwise are dreaming; it is an instrument of foreign policy. This is why the umbrella organization makes sense. But then you cannot replace the umbrella organization by talking.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much.

MP Kusie, please.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Boyd, I wanted to give you an opportunity to respond to my last two questions, please, in regard to the role of the UN in promoting democracy and the impact that the highest levels of leadership in Canada have on democracy internationally in their words and actions.

Thank you.

[Maureen Boyd]

Thanks very much.

I don't think I have very much to add to what I said earlier about the role of the United Nations. Yes, we need to support it; there's no doubt about it. My fear is that it's very easy for Global Affairs to give money to the United Nations holus-bolus and then not have to worry about being responsible for it.

We need to increase the pot. People have talked about Norway and Sweden. We gave about the same amount of money in 2016 that Sweden and Norway did—roughly $5 billion in 2016. For us, however, that was 0.26% of gross national income, whereas for Sweden it was almost 1% and for Norway 1.12%. They then are putting their money where their mouth is. We could do a lot better than we are doing.

That's why I'm a bit ambivalent. Yes, we need to support the United Nations, but we need to be supporting Canada as well. At the moment it's too one-sided.

In terms of leadership, yes, we have a brand. We're known around the world for the excellence of our institutions. It's very important that Canadians be out promoting it at all levels, not just at the senior leadership level but in our missions abroad, as you would have done.

I was in Hong Kong from 1987 until 1992, before and after Tiananmen Square. Canada played a huge role in that. So yes, we need to be doing it, but not just at the highest levels of leadership; rather, all the way down throughout—the hidden wiring mechanism.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

With my last minute, Mr. LaRose-Edwards, I'll go back to you with a more technological question.

When Canada is engaged in monitoring an election, how much of the work that you do takes place prior to the election, in terms of identifying threats, possible issues and working to mitigate those things? In terms of election monitors, you mentioned this briefly, by explaining some of the duties and how it can lead to a more legitimate election. That's something that's interesting, as we approach the 2019 election here. It's a different environment, of course, but maybe not from a cybersecurity perspective.

Could you briefly tell us what you do prior to going to identify the threats and possible issues?

[Paul LaRose-Edwards]

Normally, the funding for an election observation mission occurs at the very last minute. So we got the funding for the current mission on Christmas Eve. The workaround for that one is that you find the right experts and they've already been doing this. They've been doing it for years and they're professionals. That's what we've done. We've staffed this mission up, with the 50 LTOs. Most of them are experienced professionals, so they've already been thinking about this and they knew that there was a good chance we would select them. Then they apply for it, so that's the workaround. It may be last minute, but if you find the right experts, they make it happen.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank our three witnesses, and of course, our other two witnesses, who I think are still at the back, for your quite enthralling testimony today.

Colleagues, I'm going to suspend for about a minute and a half, while we clear the room and then we'll go in camera, so that we can get the work done, before we break.

[Proceedings continue in camera]