I agree with you on the part about sanctions. The reason I asked the question that I did is I see them as a tool, but an imperfect tool, obviously, because of the examples that I cited at the outset. This is not to say that sanctions have no place. They certainly have a role, but this idea that they are somehow the mechanism that is going to secure international peace and security, I think, is very much misguided. I think you've done a good job of illustrating that.
In your piece that you've put forward, and correct me if I'm wrong, but my interpretation of what you're saying is that engagement has its place. The North Korean regime is a very particular regime, a dangerous regime, although Canada can still engage to deal with the security threat that North Korea poses and we can engage by reaching out to the international community. You touched on this by talking about the need for collaboration, for co-operation. In your piece, you talk about collaborating with other states, sharing our expertise. You've also mentioned in your testimony here the usefulness, the merit of reaching out to even financial institutions.
I'm interested in that idea of collaboration, because I think if we simply look at these issues in isolation, if we have a regime with a bad human rights record that is posing a threat to international security, there might be a tendency to say that we are going to simply cut ourselves off and not engage in any dialogue. However, there is a robust dialogue that can take place between Canada and other states who are like-minded and concerned about international peace and security when we're dealing with North Korea. I think it's diplomacy through the back door, so to speak, a different way of engaging and maybe not directly with North Korea, but through this other avenue that I mentioned and that you wrote about in your article.
I wonder if you could elaborate on that.