As you know, there is always in the American administration some tension between those elements in the U.S. government and the Congress and the administration who put particular heavy emphasis on the observation of human rights in other countries and those who adopt a somewhat [Technical difficulty—Editor]. As long as things don't reach the level of colossal atrocities, they feel that those are essentially internal matters of other countries and not a place for the United States to [Technical difficulty—Editor].
I think maybe the Carter administration was the most activist in terms of using rights and the observation and respect of rights in different countries as a criterion for the forthcoming goodwill of the United States in response to those countries. The Nixon administration perhaps was on the other end of the scale. While it took notice of these things, it essentially dealt with whoever was there unless they were so morally opprobrious that it was beneath the dignity of the United States to do it.
I would say that this administration would be somewhat closer to the Nixon model, and well away from the Carter model. I think President Trump feels that in general, American interventionism recently, indeed since the Korean War, when its military intervention has, with some exceptions, not been overly successful and has not been easily justified as a geopolitical investment.... In the Middle East, virtually the entire conventional ground forces military capability of the United States was tied up in that area for over a decade. Approximately $2 trillion were spent, an immense humanitarian crisis was generated, and scores of thousands of casualties occurred in the case of the United States, and much larger numbers in other populations. Geopolitically, the U.S. doesn't have much to show for it. That was quite prominent in the comments that the candidate took prior to the election, and it certainly resonated well with his voters.
I'm sure that when you were in Washington you would have encountered indications that this is an administration that takes note of the degree to which rights are observed, but it is not going to become overly demonstrative or insistent about that subject unless it really becomes an atrocious situation on a vast scale. I think that this administration, and any American administration from now on, from either party, would be much more responsive than the Clinton administration was to what went on in Rwanda, for example, or the Carter administration to what went on in Cambodia.
I am hopeful, as I'm sure you are, that the world in general has gotten to a point where it will take radical measures to prevent another Darfur, or any of these horrible disasters where huge numbers of people perish or are dislocated.
But in terms of determining their policy, I think this administration will cut a fair bit of slack to almost any plausible government, other than a failed state, that whatever it is doing it has a right to do within its own borders. Now, it will become much more demonstrative about the exportation of aggression, and particularly of terrorism. I think what you'll get, in general, is an administration that tries to give a much clearer definition of U.S. national interests, rather in the way that President Truman and Secretary Acheson did just prior to the Korean War, and make it clear what the United States regards as its national interests. It will be a much less ambitious definition than the George W. Bush administration had, and at much less pacifistic and passive one than the Obama administration had, but at least it will be clear.
In the human rights area, I think this is an administration that would only really assert itself and use American political strength in the case of violations of human rights on such a scale that they would be repulsive to the American public.