On poverty reduction, there are many forums and many calculations. Definitions of poverty don't mean only less purchasing power and less than $150 U.S. per day of income. There are many different measurements, and I would obviously agree with you that they're not all equal and they're not all very indicative of the meaningful change in people's lives that we are all trying to achieve.
Let me just explain. I think the crux of your question is how we measure poverty reduction relative to investment. Measuring that is perhaps more difficult than measuring direct intervention, so I'm agreeing with you on that. The measurement of poverty relative to investment is much more difficult. You can measure at the level of the investment. You can measure whether they are creating jobs. You can measure whether they have policies in place that empower women in business. You can measure whether they have environmental policies and procedures in place. Those are all the kinds of things that are very important to the abolishment of poverty, but they don't answer whether it changes the lives of people in the communities that they serve.
MEDA is working with the University of Waterloo to try...and that's a question for not only MEDA or Desjardins or the Canadian government in the establishment of the DFI. The question that everybody is asking in this development impact investing space is how we measure impact, if you're calling it impact investing. MEDA—