Foreign Affairs Committee on March 12th, 2020

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

It's not progressing as positively as perhaps we were just led to believe with the other agreement.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

My understanding is that India is reviewing domestically how it wants to approach this. It's not just Canada-related, but international. They're reviewing how they want to deal with international trade agreements in general.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Stéphane Bergeron]

Thank you.

We will now begin another round of five-minute questions.

Mr. Virani, you have the floor.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I'd like to begin by congratulating you, Mr. Minister, on your hard work since taking office, particularly with regard to the coronavirus and flight 752 in Iran.

I think it's particularly appropriate when you've been questioned about our efforts to advocate on behalf of all Canadians, regardless of their background or origin. When we say a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian, that was manifest in terms of our treatment of and our support for the Iranian-Canadian community in this country at the start of this year.

So, thank you very much.

I want to start with one very general question.

You've heard a lot about the committee's concerns for human rights, and I share them. I'm a human rights lawyer and was a constitutional lawyer prior to being a parliamentarian. You've also had some questions asked of you about the money that's being spent by Canada in terms of our international engagement.

Just off the bat, Mr. Minister, it's a very simple question. If you're going to advocate internationally for human rights, could you tell us if that requires you and Global Affairs Canada to spend money doing so by visiting different parts of the planet?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We are doing that. Not only are we speaking about human rights, but I think you can look at our feminist foreign policy through which, for example, we empower more women to be at the table, more women to be part of peace discussions, more women to be part of leadership and more women to engage. For example, I was in Mali recently, where I had a round table with women who are trying to engage in the peace process. We know there's empirical evidence—we should know by now, and the world—that when you bring more women into the peace processes, they're long-lasting, there are better outcomes and the needs of the communities are better taken care of.

Yes, by defending human rights, I would say that we put our money where our mouth is in the world. Not only do we advocate for that, but where we see gaps, we can make a difference. I always go back to the point that my honourable colleague Mr. Harris made. For me, numbers and impact need to be related. I can tell you the story I heard of the women in Mali, where we are participating, for example, in the next election. They said that the small amount we have given had a disproportional impact on the outcome, a positive impact.

I think we're trying to be smart. We're trying to engage others. We know that Canada alone cannot necessarily change the world, but Canada can lead. You said that Iran was a good example, where we created the international coordination and the response group to help the victims.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Just building on something, you were responding to something that Mr. Harris had asked you. In response to him earlier, you also said that there are times, specifically with respect to the relationship with China, when we must periodically “disagree profoundly on human rights.”

I represent a large number of Tibetan Canadians in my riding of Parkdale—High Park and I'm very proud to do so. I'm also very proud of our track record in raising issues of religious freedom and linguistic freedoms. I know that in 2018, in front of the universal periodic review mechanism at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva, we specifically recommended that China end prosecution and persecution on the basis of religion or beliefs, including for Tibetan Buddhists.

I'm also aware that we have spoken out at the UN Human Rights Council in stating that the government of China's ongoing persecution of religious and ethnic minorities, particularly in Xinjiang and Tibet, was incompatible with its international obligations as well as its constitution. I know that we've urged authorities to immediately release all individuals detained for exercising their human rights, including their right to freedom of religion and expression, and to protect advocates of linguistic and cultural rights, such as an individual named Tashi Wangchuk, who is perhaps the most celebrated case.

I want to return to something that's come up during the course of the last hour. Could you provide an update to this committee about the utility of speaking up about these very pressing issues, in particular with respect to the People's Republic of China, and update us about the steps the government is currently taking to promote freedom of religion for Tibetan Buddhists and Uighur Muslims?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

First of all, we're deeply concerned about this situation for the Uighurs and the Tibetans. Let's be clear, and let's be on the record with that. As I said to our colleague Mr. Genuis when he was asking the question before, the fact that I have an open dialogue with my Chinese counterpart allows us to raise these issues and keep them alive. We have met three or four times already, and every time that I meet him, there are expectations, because that's Canada.

There's an expectation I'll talk about human rights. There's an expectation I'll talk about Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig, that I'll talk about Schellenberg, that I'll talk about the other cases that are pending in China, and about our concern with respect to minorities in China, and our concern with respect to upholding international law. The fact that we have a dialogue is providing the opportunity to bring these issues to the forefront every time.

As I said, we have a multi-dimensional, complex relationship. The fact that we are engaging means we are allowed to put them on the table, because I can assure you that they know that when they are going to talk to me, these issues are going to be on the table. They come back to the forefront every time we meet.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Stéphane Bergeron]

We will go back to Ms. Alleslev, who has five minutes.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have questions on some other statistics, this time on export permits. I'd like to understand the current backlog, by country, from which we are waiting to receive export permits. How many are in the backlog and how is it divided up by country?

Second, I'd like to know, over the last five years for each year, how many were withdrawn by the applicant and at what point, in what average time, again by country.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'm sure you won't hold it against me if I don't remember that by heart.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Next time when you come, I'll expect you to be able to give it to me by heart.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I'll have a table, Mr. Chair.

Suffice it to say that we process about 7,000 permits annually. We will provide you the information. I just want to give some context.

I became Minister of Foreign Affairs about four months ago. One of my priorities, and the reason you see Mr. Verheul to my left, is that I have been asking him to review the process pretty much in its entirety, because you know I come from an environment in which predictability is key for businesses. I've always said we need to have a system in place so we can provide predictability. If we're going to say no, we better say no early.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Early and consistently, and obviously that's a significant part of a number of businesses in Canada—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Totally.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

—particularly since their perception is that the approach has changed. Their perception is that even with our allies, export permits are not being approved. Let's get the facts, and then perhaps we can understand what your new process is so that we can communicate more clearly so that our defence partners know what will be approved and in a timely manner, because they are absolutely losing business, and it's having a significant impact.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We'll be happy to do so.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much.

Last but not least, can you give us a feel for the coordination between your department and Citizenship and Immigration around issuing visas at this point in time for countries that are significantly impacted by coronavirus, one of which would be Iran?

I have a number of people in my constituency, in my area, who are concerned that they are still receiving visas. There are not necessarily flights from Iran, but they're going to other countries and then coming into Canada, yet we don't actually know whether they are healthy. What kind of regime are you putting in place and how are we protecting Canadians through that process?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Our duty is to protect the health and safety of Canadians, both at home and abroad. In Iran we're providing consular services to Italy, which was very helpful when we had PS752. I did thank the foreign minister today. I want to put that on the record because it went far beyond what a protector—as we call them in our jargon—would normally do.

We are working with Italy. We are also closely monitoring what's going on, because we understand that flight restrictions can impose certain complexities for people who want to come back. We're doing the same with respect to Italy, by the way.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Are we looking at a whole-of-government approach and at working with the other governments' citizenship and immigration agencies around visas and visitor visas and all that kind of stuff that we're looking—

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Yes, I would say there are many committees are working together at the deputy level.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Do I have any time left? I'm going to hand it over to Mr. Epp.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Stéphane Bergeron]

You have about one minute.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about Canada's place in the world.

I'm going to go back to our relationship with our neighbour to the south. In your opening comments, you said they're our partners and they're our friends, and we're linked by geography. Obviously, as Mr. Verheul well knows, those are massive economic ties.

Specifically now to COVID-19, can you talk about the level of co-operation and coordination that we are dealing with around this virus with our neighbours to the south?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say at different levels of governments, our officials are talking daily. The best example of that is the Grand Princess. You may have heard the comments of President Trump when he said that Canada responded immediately and well to the demand.

You remember that there were exceptions we made. We had a request from the U.S. State Department to repatriate Canadians on that ship. I said we had the request, and this was a cruise environment. We wanted to protect health and safety and prevent the spread of the virus in North America, so we acted with our U.S. colleagues. We have been with the CDC in Japan almost from day one.