Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2021

[Tineka Levy, Humanitarian Advisor, Save the Children Canada]

I can jump in.

I think that it is quite a problem. Not every country has a robust data collection system to be able to be tracking, at the level that we would want, the numbers of displaced boys and girls, but the fact is that the majority of refugee children are hosted in low- and middle-income countries. If Canada is serious about getting this type of information and getting the supports that are needed to these children, then support for these types of contexts needs to increase. Those countries that have more flexible and more welcoming policies for refugees, such as Uganda, should be “rewarded” for that with the aid and the additional support that they need so that refugee and displaced children can be included in national systems. However, frankly, that level of support that's needed to support that inclusion is not available even in contexts where policies are more welcoming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you so much.

Mr. Bergeron, go ahead for six minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations, which are informing this committee's work.

We know that the situation of children in crisis and war zones is extremely problematic. Those issues are multifaceted, and we are increasingly realizing that the current situation related to COVID-19 is exacerbating those already significant problems.

We know that children are less affected by COVID-19 than older people. We also know that, in crisis and war zones, other factors that afflict children—such as malnutrition and lack of care—are exacerbating the impact of COVID-19.

This said, we know that some of the available vaccines must be stored at very low temperatures, which makes their administration extremely complicated. In the meantime, we hope that people will be able to apply minimum sanitation measures to avoid being infected by the virus.

However, according to a UNICEF study, 40% of the global population lack the facilities for washing hands with soap and water. Yet we know full well that one of the first rules being repeated since the beginning of the pandemic is to frequently wash hands with soap and fresh water. However, we are seeing that this is simply impossible in many cases.

How can adequate access to drinking water be ensured? This is already a significant problem under normal circumstances for people living in crisis zones or war zones. And now the COVID-19 crisis is further complicating matters on the ground.

[Annabelle Bodmer-Roy]

I can take that question, and my colleagues want to jump in as well.

Thank you very much for the question.

We mentioned at the outset a six-point plan for children, and one of those priorities, in fact, is to ensure an increased access to clean water, sanitation and hygiene for children and young people all over the world.

As you mentioned, 40% of people in some of these contexts don't have access to clean water. One of the concerns that UNICEF has—as well as other partners—is specifically for children in crowded conditions like we see in refugee camps and displacement camps, so one area of focus for us is very much to ensure increased access in those conditions. That includes clean water, as well as access to soap and to water purification tablets. That's one measure that's a high priority for us, particularly in the context of this segment on children in conflict and crisis situations.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I will also give you time to answer the question, Mr. Fischer.

[Martin Fischer]

Thank you.

I think the one thing that Rowena talked about in terms of vaccines is the massive logistical challenge we face in many of these countries, and I think we'd be remiss if we didn't point to the massive public awareness effort that needs to go in parallel to that. We know from our work that there are misconceptions about vaccines, that there are worries about vaccines and that often the information trickles down very slowly to the communities we work in. If we isolate the conversation about vaccines to a logistical challenge in developing countries, probably we're only covering one side of the story.

Equally, then, I think we know that when it comes to children, we will only be able to provide the kind of protection services and the kind of health services if their parents are able to go back to work once they're vaccinated. I think it's really important to look at this sort of holistically, as we have said, to not isolate vaccines as a silver bullet, and to look at the way that we will be able to actually get people to be willing to become vaccinated once those vaccines are available.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

You talk about awareness raising as an essential step in a vaccination campaign like the one required in the current COVID-19 crisis. I would say that education is one of the major awareness-raising tools.

However, even in ideal education conditions—such as those in Quebec or in Canada, if I may say so—we see that interest in schooling is at its lowest owing to distance learning.

In countries where the logistics related to distance learning, and even basic learning, are extremely complex, how can this education challenge be met in a context such as the one involving COVID-19?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Could we have just a brief answer, please? Maybe there will be a chance to come back in the second round.

[Lindsay Gladding]

Perhaps I can jump in here.

Certainly from my perspective, one of the important things we need to do first is to understand contextually what the barriers are. World Vision has conducted a recent barrier analysis on vaccine uptake, in Myanmar, Bangladesh, Kenya, Tanzania and DRC, and is using that to help national public health efforts to understand why people may be unable or unwilling to access vaccines and to access health care, so that we can very intentionally address those barriers. I was—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Ms. Gladding, I apologize. We'll have to leave it there in the interests of fairness and time. There may be a chance to come back to this point when Monsieur Bergeron has his second chance to ask questions.

We will now go to Ms. McPherson for six minutes, please.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of our witnesses for coming today and sharing this with us. I know that next week is International Development Week. If I don't get a chance to see you during the week, I want to thank you now deeply from the bottom of my heart for all of the work you do. Next week as we celebrate your efforts, we'll keep you in mind.

This committee knows that I'm very committed to increasing Canada's official development assistance. I think it's embarrassingly low right now, and I think we heard from the witnesses today that during COVID-19 it's vitally important that Canada's contribution and Canada's commitment be in addition to, not instead of, our official development assistance.

I do have some questions about what could be accomplished if our ODA were appropriate. I think it's important that we get this on the record.

Maybe I'll start with you, Ms. Russell. You spoke of the risk that girls will not return to school, that we will lose some of those gains we've made in terms of girls' enrolment in school. What could be done if we were able to do more to prevent that loss of enrolment as we come out of the COVID-19 pandemic?

[Taryn Russell]

By enabling us to increase our efforts, we'll be able to ensure that not only all kids who were in school, including girls in those vulnerable groups before the pandemic, are able to return but also that we can pick up the great work that was generally happening around getting more students in school.

Over the past couple of decades, we've made a lot of global progress, including in complex situations like Afghanistan, in terms of getting girls in school at the same level as boys in many places, and really reducing that gap. There is a real risk that we're going to backslide on a lot of the progress made. We know about all the knock-on effects regarding schooling. You've heard this before. It's not just a place to learn. It's a place for children to flee violence, and where we're able to deliver immunization and malnutrition programs in many cases.

We know the interventions that work. Many organizations here are utilizing them. It's just the scale that needs more effort put into it. We did some analysis at Save the Children. It would require $50 billion worldwide to get all kids back in school who are out of school right now. Those are not just donors, those are national governments prioritizing it in their budgets. It needs to be an all-in effort in terms of how we are using our political will to prioritize these efforts.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

And to ensure those dollars are there, absolutely.

[Taryn Russell]

Exactly.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

One of the things I hear from this is that there is an opportunity with the backslide to lose those gains, so the investment we've already put into women and girls around the world could be lost. When you speak of situations in places like Afghanistan, I completely agree.

I'm going to ask Ms. Pinto the next question in terms of our vaccine outreach, and making sure that people around the world are able to recover equitably from COVID-19 as we go forward. I'm going to quote a survey that was actually done by World Vision, because the data actually talked about how 78% of Canadians think that the Government of Canada needs to increase the amount of money it spends on development assistance, focusing on helping those who are displaced or in refugee camps impacted by COVID-19.

Could Ms. Bodmer-Roy or Ms. Pinto speak a bit about this? What would an increased contribution mean, and how can Canada could do more, making sure there is an equitable rollout of the vaccine, and an equitable response to COVID-19 around the world?

[Rowena Pinto]

As I've mentioned, Canada is playing a big role right now around vaccines. This can always be increased. Obviously, this problem is as complex as we see in Canada. You can only imagine that as we get into it, and the vaccines start to flow, especially to the developing world, we're going to run into barriers very similar to those in Canada.

Investment requirements will change, and we'll have to be very agile and flexible in terms of our approaches. As someone just mentioned, the number of vaccines, and how you store them, how you transport them, how you deliver them, the amount of doses, all those things are constantly moving targets.

We don't have all the answers right now. Even the price of vaccines is a constantly changing landscape. What we do know is that we are starting to look at what it will actually take to deliver the vaccines effectively. That does not count in terms of the actual purchase of vaccines, but just to get them into the arms of people, because having vaccines is critical.

As you mentioned, people who are in conflict settings or in displaced camps....That will be a much bigger cost. Canada has a huge role to play.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I have one quick question, because I don't have very much time.

Mr. Fischer, could you speak a bit more about the supply chain legislation, and why you think we have not moved forward on the supply chain legislation that was recommended two years ago to the government?

[Martin Fischer]

I'm conscious of time as well, and can give you a very quick answer.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I can come back to this on my next round.

[Martin Fischer]

Sure, but I can start by saying we have a hard time seeing anything but a lack of political will as a reason, because there's recommendation over recommendation. We realize that COVID set back some of the momentum in Canada, but as we look to 2021 and 2022, I have a hard time seeing what else we need to do other than for the government to pick up that great progress, and indicate that it is willing to do it.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

We will now go into our second round of questions.

I encourage colleagues to continue to respect the time limits carefully because there are some very tight allocations. I want to make sure that a member of each party has a chance to ask a second question in this second round.

The first five minutes go to Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you so much to all the witnesses for their work and for their testimony.

At the risk of looking like I'm trying to give Ms. McPherson some of my time for free, I do want to follow up with Mr. Fischer and give him a bit more time on that.

Maybe I'll just make a comment to you first of all.

The Subcommittee on International Human Rights did some extensive work on the situation of the Uighurs. Supply chain legislation was a key part of that discussion. There were some very strong all-party recommendations in a statement that was released.

Although the government hasn't taken action on this, I think you see strong political will from at least everyday members of all parties. I don't know how we crossed that threshold when we have members of all parties—our party, but others as well—pushing on this.

The reality is that Senate bills, private members' bills.... There are just huge delays. I've been working on a fairly simple organ harvesting and trafficking bill that everybody supports, and people have been trying to get this passed for 10 years. There are just delays and procedural issues, which is basically why, unfortunately, you need a government bill to get things done in a timely way around here.

Do you have a comment on that or any feedback? Then I will go to my next question.

[Martin Fischer]

Thanks for giving me a bit more time.

I think that you're right. When I say “political will”, I really mean a strong signal from the federal government that this is a priority and that it is willing to move on it based on various...consensus, as you indicated.

We know that members of the opposition parties are in favour of this. We know that, in private, members of government are in favour of this. In part, the move to the Senate was—you're right—procedural to make sure that it actually gets some airtime.

I know that some members here are active when it comes to petitions. We have a petition on the issue that has 70,000 signatures. Really, when we look at public awareness, I think there are various pieces that have come out over the last few weeks that highlight the PPE risks. You're also right, Mr. Genuis, around the Uighurs; that is a concern.

We saw a quick response, actually, from the government, together with the U.K., when it comes to the Uighurs. Whether that's strong enough, one can debate, but there was a tactical response saying that we will ban those imports. Apparently, it is doable.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Yes.

I'm sorry. I do want to get to another question, but thank you for that. Maybe Ms. McPherson can pick up on it further. I'm certainly of the view that the government's response was not adequate. It was a quick communications response. Again, I suspect many members of the government, at least in private, would agree that more needs to be done.

I have an open-ended question for anyone who wants to answer it.

I'm very interested in our exploring more the role of conflict in undermining development. I think one of the other issues when it comes to education is what the opportunities in an educational setting are for students, perhaps across conflicting communities, to interact with each other, for pro-pluralism messages to be communicated as part of education, and what the losses are in terms of that interaction that come with people's being out of school.

If anybody wants to pick up on that—the role of conflict, pluralism and what we're seeing right now....