Foreign Affairs Committee on March 25th, 2021

[Peter Fonseca, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

How have these military states of emergencies affected our staff and also local people? Are they able to travel? Are they able to communicate with each other? Can people leave the country? How is that all functioning—Internet, telecommunications services? Is everything just locked down?

[Paul Thoppil]

Mr. Chair, the situation in the country is volatile. You will note that in the days after the coup there was a shutdown of the Internet and the airport closed. That was further exacerbated by the civil disobedience movement that has shut down government services. Banks have closed, as have a number of other daily services for the population.

There is intermittent arrival by banks and grocery stores, which we take into account in terms of making that duty of care assessment daily. It also helps us in terms of calibration and in terms of what the impact is on the population going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fonseca, Mr. Thoppil. We'll have to leave it there.

Mr. Bergeron, you have two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to follow up on that.

Global Affairs Canada issued a notice that Canadians shouldn't travel to Myanmar. My question is very simple: Were Canadians in Myanmar advised to leave the country?

[Paul Thoppil]

Peter, may I direct that question to you?

[Peter Lundy]

Thank you for the question.

Yes, we've recently changed our travel advice to advise Canadians that they should depart the country. Part of that is based on.... There are currently flights available, but changing circumstances could start to limit those. There is the freedom of movement that Paul described. Despite curfews overnight, there is the ability to move in the major urban centres during the day.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Related to this first question, I just wanted to know what is being considered.

Once there is assurance that a large number of Canadians have left the country, is closing the embassy being considered? Indeed, there will no real consular services left to offer and this would send a clear signal to the illegitimate authorities in Myanmar that Canada disapproves of the coup.

[Paul Thoppil]

Mr. Chair, as part of our comprehensive measures, we have a calibrated engagement policy. In terms of engagement with Myanmar, we will only engage with Myanmar officials to discuss the following issues: one, restoration of the democratically elected government and release of the detainees; two, consular issues to the extent that they exist; three, ASEAN-related issues; four, human rights, including the Rohingya; and, of course, five, any issues to deal with our duty of care obligations for staff and mission-related matters.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

That was certainly an interesting answer, but not necessarily to the question I asked, so I'll ask it again quickly.

Once there is assurance that many—if not all—Canadian citizens in Myanmar have left the country, isn't there a plan to close the embassy? There will be no consular services to provide, and this would signal our disapproval of the recent military coup.

[Paul Thoppil]

Mr. Chair, that is a hypothetical question, but as I noted, in terms of the number of issues for which we would continue to need to engage with Myanmar officials, it may be that some of those other issues will continue to warrant continued engagement but on very defined terms.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

Mr. Harris, the floor is yours.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to follow up briefly on the issue of Canadian investments in holdings owned by the Tatmadaw.

I'll read a quote to you from an article in the Globe and Mail last year. I think it was last year, or it may be older:

Among the Myanmar military-related stocks owned by CPPIB, for example, “are highly-reputable multinational companies providing their clients with exceptional products and services,”...

This is from the global head of public affairs and communications for the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board

I suspect that the Canadian public, who may rely in part on their Canada pension plan, would not be very happy to know that part of their retirement fund is benefiting from investments in the military in Myanmar. Surely there's something that can be done about it that would not only solve that problem but also prevent Canada and Canadians from in fact supporting the economic enterprises of the military in Myanmar, who are capable of doing what we've seen in the last couple of months but also throughout their history in Myanmar.

Is that not something that could be part of a strategy to sanction the Myanmar military for their activities and hopefully lead to a change in that country?

[Paul Thoppil]

Mr. Chair, as I may have indicated earlier, as part of our comprehensive measures, we are engaged with the Canadian business community in talking about both the legal and the reputational risks associated with their engagement in that country and the indirect benefits that may be garnered by the military. That's why we need to proceed with some guidance in terms of a business advisory. That is under way.

In terms of the technicalities involved in further sanctions, I may ask Cory to elaborate further.

[Cory Anderson]

Sure. Thank you for the question.

We monitor the effectiveness of our sanctions on the ground and in close coordination with our like-minded partners who also have similar measures in place. As I mentioned earlier, contravening Canadian sanctions is a criminal offence.

With respect to Myanmar, we have a consolidated list under SEMA of individuals and entities who are prohibited to deal with.... That does not necessarily mean there's a blanket dealings ban, but it is something that we are considering. As we move forward, we will maintain all options, including additional sanctions, if deemed necessary.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Are you aware of a Montreal company known as Dickens & Madson Canada Inc., which has entered into a $2-million lobbying contract, recently registered in the United States, to carry on lobbying work on behalf of the Myanmar military to try to fight against sanctions and lobby against that?

Is that something that would be covered by the sanctions?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Could we have a brief answer on that, please.

[Cory Anderson]

Thank you for the question.

As I mentioned in one of my previous answers, we are aware of the allegations against this firm. We are well aware also of this firm in the context of some of its previous engagements and are in constant contact with the enforcement agencies within Canada, including the RCMP, with respect to potential sanctions violations. The RCMP, at the end of the day, is responsible for investigating and enforcing these measures.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.

Mr. Genuis, there are a couple of minutes left before 5:30 that will allow you to come in with a brief question and answer.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I really don't feel that I have clarity about why the government hasn't used Magnitsky sanctions.

As you'll know, Mr. Anderson, the use of Magnitsky sanctions has been very limited and these are sanctions designed specifically to respond to human rights abuses and to target individuals. The use of Magnitsky sanctions would send, I think, a clear message about Canada's commitment to the defence of human rights, and that message hasn't been sent.

I know legislators around the world are contemplating the need to include in Magnitsky-type legislation automatic or parliamentary triggers, whereby parliamentarians could force the government to act or at least respond to requests for Magnitsky sanctions, given how we've seen cases where Magnitsky acts have been passed and then essentially not used.

Just maybe one more time on this, why not use Magnitsky sanctions to target individuals specifically for gross violations of human rights? If we're not seeing any action from the government on this, what would your response be to the idea of a mechanism by which parliamentarians, a parliamentary committee, could nominate individuals for Magnitsky sanctions and at least oblige some kind of government response to the directions or recommendations of parliamentarians with respect to those sanctions?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Just a brief answer, please. We have about 30 seconds left.

[Cory Anderson]

As I stated earlier, we have very robust sanctions in place against Myanmar under SEMA. We also have a single individual of the Myanmar military, Maung Maung Soe, who is listed under the JVCFOA or Canada's Magnitsky sanctions. We are constantly looking at the best mechanisms in order to capture the intent of our foreign policy objectives with respect to sanctions, and as of now, have determined that the best way of achieving that is through our existing measures related to SEMA.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

But why him—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Genuis, I'm sorry. It's your time. We're at 5:30, as agreed.

On our collective behalf, I'd like to thank our witnesses for their service and for their testimony this afternoon. We are in the middle of bells. We will stand adjourned until our next session, with my thanks to our panel this afternoon.

Thank you, dear colleagues.

The meeting is adjourned.