Foreign Affairs Committee on April 10th, 2024

[Caroline Delany]

The process is led by other parts of the department. It is an extremely thorough process that requires the gathering of evidence and information to demonstrate that these are decisions that are within the Canadian legislation related to sanctions. So it does take some time in terms of identifying potential targets, squaring that information with what those who are like-minded and others are doing, and then also making recommendations and ensuring that we have the evidence for the information that we're putting forward.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I certainly hope that work is happening, because I know many people have been asking for this and wondering why it appears that our foreign policy and our approach to Magnitsky sanctions and the sanctions regime are applied differently in different contexts, so it would be good to see that.

The other thing I wanted—and I know I'm running out of time—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes, Ms. McPherson, you're out time, I'm afraid.

We next go to MP Kurek.

You have five minutes.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our witnesses here today.

Aid and support from other global players can often be used and, as someone suggested, weaponized for political purposes. Specifically when we look at Africa, we see Russia—in terms of aid and significant debt forgiveness to expand its sphere of influence there—but also China, and I would suggest that often includes strategic investments.

I'm just wondering if you can provide some context as to how Canada can make sure that is kept in mind in the larger conversation about aid and development in Africa in the context of the conversation we're having now.

[Cheryl Urban]

Maybe I'll elaborate a little bit on what the activities of Russia and China are on the continent and the ways in which those intersect with the activities we undertake.

We know that Russia has developing relationships with countries in Africa. There was a Russia-Africa summit, and a number of leaders attended that. Russia is providing arms and has carved out a role for itself in providing regime security services. It also is a source of disinformation, and there are a number of African leaders who are very concerned about the disinformation that is happening within their countries, which can sometimes lead to anti-western sentiment.

We also saw visits by Lavrov a number of times on the continent, and we have the influence of Wagner security services being used.

Canada has programming that is specifically addressing disinformation, for example, and we have that in recognition that this is a—

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I apologize. It's tough when there's so little time, but it seems as though, especially with the dollars we're seeing invested in strategic investments by countries like China, our efforts seem to be dwarfed by a much larger series of players who certainly don't have Canada's economics and certainly don't have Canada's security interests at risk.

I do want to move on to something else, because there are three topics I hope to cover here.

In terms of humanitarian crises, I know there are a number of significant ones when you look at Africa, including unrest in Cameroon and the millions displaced in Nigeria because of the Boko Haram crisis. Maternal death rates are skyrocketing, even though there was, for a time, positive work in South Sudan, Chad, Nigeria, Sierra Leone and others. What is being done to help address some of those practical challenges and to make sure the support that taxpayers in Canada are paying towards the lives of those in Africa is actually helping those on the ground and having a direct positive benefit?

I'm hoping for an answer in about one minute, and then I will have one more quick question.

[Cheryl Urban]

We have a number of tools in our tool kit. Some of this is through international assistance initiatives and some of this is through our engagement diplomatically.

I'll use Sudan as an example. We see that one of the critical factors in helping resolve the situation in Sudan is having the involvement of civil society. Canada is specifically focused diplomatically and through international assistance to support civil society.

I don't know if you want to add to that.

[Marcel Lebleu]

I'll be brief, Mr. Chair.

Last year, Canada allocated $350 million to its trusted multilateral partners, so they could deal with these crises.

I'm just talking about humanitarian aid, but there are indeed other channels in terms of conflict prevention and aid—

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I hate to interrupt, but I want to get one more quick question in. I appreciate that answer, and feel free to follow up with more information.

You mentioned the priority being supporting democracy. I know Cameroon, as an example, has had the same president for 40 years. Those with knowledge of the region say elections there are a joke. We led a process, according to some reports, on trying for pre-talks on a peace process, in order to try to bring some stability to the region.

I'm wondering if we could get any comments on that. What work is being done to help bring democracy to a country that is desperate for it?

[Marcel Lebleu]

As it relates to Cameroon, Canada was indeed asked to intervene as a mediator. That was in 2022. There was a series of meetings held here in Canada between the opposition and government officials. Unfortunately, this mediation exercise went public at the beginning of 2023 and the Government of Cameroon backed away.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We now go to MP Chatel.

You have five minutes.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to return briefly to the African Union.

Before entering politics, I worked for international organizations, such as the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, the OECD. So I've seen for myself that the African Union is becoming an increasingly important player in international reform. I would even go so far as to say that it is now a key player.

I'm very curious to know how Canada can support this organization. I understand that we support its membership in the G20, which is very commendable. Finally, I know we've appointed our first permanent representative to the African Union.

Can you talk more concretely about how Canada supports this emerging force for the continent?

[Susan Steffen]

Thank you for your question.

The member has put her finger on a very important element of the rise of pan-Africanism—not 1970s pan-Africanism but a new pan-Africanism through the auspices of the African Union. That is why the Canadian government is paying so much attention to the African Union right now.

We have supported their joining the G20, which they have done. We have offered to support them to figure out how they will participate in the G20, which is one of those behind-the-scenes things that are very useful. We have inaugurated a high-level dialogue, as I said, which we will repeat in due time at the upper levels of the African Union Commission. We have a development policy dialogue that we are engaging in shortly—hopefully in Addis Ababa—to talk about development policy issues of common interest between the African Union Commission and the Canadian government. We have a trade policy dialogue that is ongoing and that will speak to AU observership at the WTO, as well as to supporting them in their desire to improve their abilities to work on trade policy issues across the continent, particularly around the continental free trade area. Canada has quite a lot of experience with free trade agreements and we can bring that to bear.

In terms of specific support, we are currently on our third general grant to the African Union Commission to support their plan of action and their program. There is also support that we provide to organizations that support the African Union from the outside, one of which is very key to what we were talking about regarding basic building blocks for the new Africa. The African Trade Policy Centre has been supporting the continental free trade area. As well, the Global Green Growth Institute is supporting the African Union Commission to work better on being able to access climate financing more directly.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

You just mentioned the financing of measures to combat climate change, which is very important. I think the African continent will be one of the hardest hit by climate change, which will lead to further conflict and economic hardship.

How can we intervene to increase climate resilience on the continent?

[Cheryl Urban]

I'll answer with a few examples. I think we have some examples of excellent projects that we have under way to help African countries take leadership in climate change. Some of those we do through the partnerships with the African Development Bank. We have an African Development Bank Africa fertilizer financing mechanism, which we recently announced, and the African Development Bank disaster risk multi-donor trust fund.

When it comes to climate change, Canada recently doubled its commitment to providing climate financing. We are also doing more in a couple of very important areas that are important to our African counterparts. It's not only about mitigation, but about adaptation. I think that working with African countries on climate change should have a focus on adaptation, as well as on biodiversity. African countries are absolutely suitable for that.

The other thing I would say is that the just energy transition is a very important initiative, and there are initiatives under way, including in South Africa, for the just energy transition. It's absolutely critical in that context because of energy problems they have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We'll now go back to MP Epp.

You have another five minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Nine out of 10 lowest-ranking countries on the human development index are in Africa. What are the key factors?

Why is the sub-Sahel so poor, and why has it been so poor for so long, despite the efforts not only of Canadians, but of many?

[Cheryl Urban]

There are many things, but I would say that one of the things that has been very challenging for African countries is having a colonial past. There are a number of implications presently that are a result of having been formerly colonized. It had a deep effect on their economy. For example, many of those countries, once they gained independence, ended up exporting raw material but were not in the business of production themselves, and they were not doing manufacturing, which was very limiting on their economy.

The other thing is that many African countries have governance models. It's actually relatively recent that a number of African countries have democracies, because they're post-independence. Post-independence, many of those democracies even began more as single-party types of democracies and then evolved to be multi-party democracies. They are trying to make development achievements in an uphill battle, when the past has not made that easy for them.

I would add that climate change has a disproportionate impact on sub-Saharan Africa, even though countries in sub-Saharan Africa are actually very minimal contributors to climate change.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

You mentioned that Canada's approach now with further and deepening engagement with the AU is reflective of the change you described, moving from a colonial past, and we're also going to move our pattern from donor-recipient to more of a partnership mutuality.

Does that mean our channels of delivering—call it aid, call it development or call it whatever—are going to change? We have many different forms, including bilateral, multilateral, through the private sector and government-to-government. Is that forecast to change?

[Cheryl Urban]

I'll start with a general statement. There is a utility to having multiple tools and multiple channels, because they each serve a unique role.

Did you want to continue, Susan?

[Susan Steffen]

I was going to say that.

There are some really exciting new tools that are available to governments to work government to government and to work with the private sector. We have a new development financing institute, FinDev, which has some really interesting tools in its tool belt to work with the African private sector, along with the Canadian private sector, to advance economic growth on the African continent.

Within Global Affairs as well, we have developed some interesting tools in innovative finance and blended finance that try to attract private finance with some support through our development assistance.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

I heard from CSOs and NGOs in Canada that have partners in various parts of the world but in Africa as well. They are calling for more aid, more development dollars and more of our programming to flow through our Canadian-based CSOs and NGOs to partner organizations for two reasons: efficiency reasons and—I'll come right out and say it—also less risk of corruption when it goes government to government down in the channels there.

The notion has been put forward that Global Affairs at times has preferred multilateral organizations rather than bilateral organizations or through our own organizations because that's less work, quite frankly, with regard to accountability. We're all in favour of accountability with regard to Canadian taxpayer dollars, but it's more work for our government to make sure that this accountability is there when it's not transferring that accountability responsibility to a multilateral organization.

How would you respond?

[Cheryl Urban]

I would start by saying that our partnerships with Canadian civil society organizations are extremely valuable and absolutely important as part of our tool kit, and we really value them. However, they are not the only way in which it makes sense to do development in some of these contexts.

For example, working with international organizations allows us to go into very tough places. Sometimes United Nations organizations are those that have the infrastructure to be able to operate in conflict places. Also, with some of the international organizations, we can really leverage the funding of other donors or even if we.... For example, if we do development by investing and becoming shareholders of international financial institutions, they take the funds that we provide, put them on the market and make more money from them. Then you can do more development with those funds, so there are benefits to doing that.

The final thing I'll say is that sometimes we've learned—and this is an example from our women's voice and leadership program—that working with local organizations is a way to work with the grassroots and to stimulate change. It's just another effective mechanism in addition to Canadian civil society.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We now go to Ms. Damoff.

You have five minutes.