Foreign Affairs Committee on April 10th, 2024

[Cheryl Urban]

At the moment we're pulling together thoughts on engagement. It doesn't have a name at the moment. We are looking at the information and pulling together an approach, recognizing that what's important to African countries is that we are looking at our engagement in partnership with them.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay. We started with a strategy, which then became a framework, and ended up being an approach.

Is that right?

[Cheryl Urban]

I'm just saying that we don't have a name for it at the moment.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Okay, that's fine.

I'm wondering why the departmental plan specifically talks about sub-Saharan Africa.

What about North Africa?

[Apeksha Kumar, Director, Maghreb and Egypt, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

In North Africa, much of what my colleagues have said still applies to North Africa. I can highlight the more particular nature of that region.

North Africa is a nexus between very critical regions for us. It's not only on the top of the continent, obviously, but it's also a gateway to the Middle East and Europe. In that, it holds a strategic importance that's somewhat different from the rest of the continent.

We share the priorities with the rest of the continent in helping to preserve democratic gains and other progress that has been made over the last while of our engagement. We will build on having been a valuable and credible partner in that region, and that really means something in these countries. We have strong people-to-people ties. We have strong trade connections.

Three of the largest economic partners for Canada are in North Africa, for example, so we're going to make use of the advantages we have on the global stage. For North Africa, we have language. As my colleague has mentioned, we have an expertise and a focus on gender. On development, we are one of the only donors that focuses on the most vulnerable.

Perhaps I'll close by noting that we are very well looked upon in North Africa, and this will be, I'm sure, considered as we move forward in determining what our engagement looks like. However, we have a different history in Africa from some of the major players. We don't have a colonial history, and that really plays well for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid we're out of time.

We now go to Madam McPherson. You have six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all very much for coming here today. It's an important study. We have decided that we would be studying this for several meetings, so I am going to take my time right now to read a motion that I'd like to make sure is on the record, mostly because we have a number of meetings to discuss this.

Unfortunately, with my limited time, I do need to mention something that's quite pressing. To start, I want to say that despite my motion to study the situation in Israel and Palestine at this committee, which passed in a vote last May, nearly a year ago, that study has not been scheduled by this committee, to the great frustration of the New Democratic Party. The situation in Israel and Palestine should also be a priority of this committee, as it is for foreign affairs committees in other parts of the world. However, I am feeling that our efforts here are consistently being blocked.

I will use the remainder of my time to give notice of a new motion that addresses the government's failure to provide the documents that this committee requested back in February. I have been trying for weeks to get this committee to agree to make the few documents we received public, and to return to Global Affairs Canada with instructions to provide the rest of the documents.

In addition, I am frustrated that on March 18, the Minister of Foreign Affairs promised us that she would issue a notice to exporters regarding arms exports to Israel, but this has not yet been done. I don't understand the lack of urgency, when 13,000 children have been killed and more people are starving to death every day.

Here is the motion that I am giving notice of today:

That, given the failure of Global Affairs Canada to produce the documents requested by this committee on February 12, 2024, and the letter to the committee from the Deputy Minister dated March 13, 2024, requesting further instruction, the chair instruct the clerk to publish the letter and annex received from Global Affairs Canada on Canada’s arms exports to Israel on the public committee web page; that the committee instruct Global Affairs Canada to: a) provide details on all current open export and brokering permits for military goods and technology to Israel, without redaction for commercial confidentiality, as the Committee requested in its motion of February 12 2024; b) provide details on all export or brokering permits for military goods and technology to Israel, whether open or expired, dating back to 2020, not 2006 as the Committee requested in its motion of February 12 2024; c) reissue the annex without redactions for commercial confidentiality, as the committee motion specified; That these details be provided within 30 days of adoption of this motion; and, That, once received, these documents be made public on the committee website.

With that, I will ensure that the clerk is given copies of this motion in both English and French.

I would now like to turn to our witnesses.

I thank you for your patience as I brought that forward. It is very important to me that we are able to get the documents that so many organizations across Canada have been wanting.

What I will start with is some of the information that you provided, Major-General, on peacekeeping. In 2016, we know that this government had committed to 600 military peacekeepers and 150 military police who would be allocated as peacekeepers around the world. How many peacekeepers have been allocated to the continent of Africa?

[MGen Gregory Smith]

Thank you, Chair. I'm doing a quick count here.

I think the Democratic Republic of Congo has approximately 10. South Sudan also has about 10 and—they're not UN peacekeepers—the number through Multinational Force and Observers is 39. Therefore, that would be a total of approximately 59.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

In 2016, there were going to be 750, but in Africa at the moment we have 59. It's really a fraction, considering the conflicts that we see.

Why is it difficult? I would like to get a strong understanding of why it's difficult to get peacekeepers on the ground. Canada has that reputation. We have that history of providing peacekeepers meaningfully. We have a government that has made a commitment to do so, and yet that hasn't resulted in peacekeepers on the ground helping to maintain peace in the continent of Africa.

[MGen Gregory Smith]

We, the Canadian Armed Forces, go in accordance with Global Affairs' foreign policy on what exactly we're going to achieve. I did peacekeeping back in 1993-94 in Croatia. We manned a zone of separation between two warring sides. That was very traditional peacekeeping.

The kind of conflict that we see in Africa, for example, in the Democratic Republic of Congo, is almost war fighting. It's a very difficult situation. The types of security situations that we're seeing where there's intercountry conflict are not what we would call “traditional” peacekeeping. That makes them that much more of a challenge. However, I'd step back and say that there may be a broader Global Affairs perspective on that.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Perhaps Mr. Lebleu could respond.

[Marcel Lebleu, Director General, West and Central African Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

The numbers go up and down.

However, I'd like to point out that Canada has deployed a 250-person contingent to Mali as part of the United Nations Multidimensional Integrated Stabilization Mission in Mali, or MINUSMA, which is a peacekeeping mission. Unfortunately, Mali has asked the United Nations to end this mission. The same thing is happening with the United Nations Organization Stabilization Mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo, or MONUSCO. Discussions are ongoing between the United Nations and the countries receiving these missions. So it's a very different context.

I'd also like to point out that, with respect to MONUSCO, Canada is offering specific financial contributions of approximately $30 million, and not military personnel. Until very recently, we had more or less the same thing in Mali.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to MP Epp.

You have five minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

I'm going to begin with Global Affairs. The direction that I'm going in follows in line with the questions from Ms. Fry and Mr. Bergeron.

In response to my colleague, Ms. Urban, you stated that Canada has a good history of engagement with Africa, yet the Centre for International Policy Studies has described Canada as having “no profile in Africa” despite this government's efforts over the last nine years. It says that “the government's policy in Africa...[is] a repackaging and re-energising”. Another academic has characterized it as a series of consistent inconsistencies. Would you agree with those statements?

[Cheryl Urban]

I would point to the ways in which we do have a presence with African countries and on the African continent. For example, we work hand in hand with la Francophonie and the Commonwealth, and we achieve a number of things together. If you look at the African Development Bank, you will see that Canada is the fourth-largest non-regional shareholder, having quite a big voice. We have really stepped up our engagement with the AU, and we now have a permanent observer office, so that is increasing.

I don't know if any of my colleagues want to add to that.

[Susan Steffen, Director General, Pan-Africa Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

One of the things I think is key to our engagement now and for the very near future is our newish and bolstered relationship with the African Union and the African Union Commission. We had a high-level dialogue in October 2022 that brought a large delegation from the African Union Commission—including the chairperson of the African Union Commission, Moussa Faki—to Canada to meet with our Prime Minister. That has really launched us into a new relationship and a bolstered relationship with that apex organization on the continent, an organization that is taking its place on the international stage in a new way, joining the G20. Canada is supporting the African Union's accession as an observer to the World Trade Organization—

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

I'm sorry to cut you off, but I do have some questions to go through here.

I agree with your opening assessment of the potential of Africa. With a youthful population, labour sources and natural resources, there is a whole host of opportunities, yet Canada only has 27 missions in Africa. Again, an approach of future opportunity...yet our presence there does not seem to reflect that hopeful approach. How would you respond?

[Cheryl Urban]

We have relationships with a number of countries through each mission. Our embassy or high commission have staff who are responsible for relationships with a number of countries. Our ambassadors and high commissioners are accredited to a number of countries, and they are very active. If they are representing Canada with a given number of countries, they will travel there and will establish those relationships, and they are able to undertake business and do diplomacy in that manner.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

However, with 25% of the world's population or future population.... We have 55 missions in the Americas, which have a much smaller relative population. Given the potential.... I know that here at this committee we just finished a study on the future of diplomacy. Should there be a reprioritization of resources?

[Cheryl Urban]

I think part of the reason for the footprint we have is the nature of the work we're doing. One of the discrepancies, perhaps, between the number of missions in the Americas versus in Africa is the amount of commercial sector engagement that happens with the United States, which requires a high degree of commercial support by our diplomats.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you.

In my last remaining minute, I want to zero in a bit on Mali.

You mentioned in your comments that we have mining interests in Africa. We have many mining interests, particularly gold, in Mali. Right now, our Canadian companies are paying up to $10 million a month in royalties to the government. I'm sorry. I'm misspeaking here. Ten million dollars a month of Mali...is going into supporting the Wagner Group for security.

What are the tools we have as a country to redirect some of those Canadian assets producing royalties in a foreign country into the health or education fields of Mali, as opposed to the Wagner Group?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Again, I apologize. Please keep your answer down to less than 30 seconds.

[Cheryl Urban]

I'll start with this: We work with regional organizations like ECOWAS and the African Union in order to help support African solutions to security in African countries, including in western Africa and Mali.

I don't know if my colleague wants to add anything about Mali, specifically.

[Marcel Lebleu]

Generally speaking, the trade commissioner service that supports Canadian companies abroad asks those companies to sign a statement of integrity. No services are provided unless the statement is signed.

In addition, we expect these companies to adhere to the UN and OECD guiding principles on human rights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now go to MP Oliphant.

You have five minutes.