Foreign Affairs Committee on May 8th, 2024

[Denis Côté]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

It was also my understanding that Canada had made a commitment. We'd have to look for the actual document, though, because I don't have it here. Having said that, yes, that's been the premise of our work for many years.

Some fiscal years can be tougher than others. However, when we're at only half the target contribution after 50 years, we can't blame tough fiscal years for failure to boost international aid budgets. The problem is that there's something wrong with the system itself.

I want to drive home the message about funding multilateral agencies and civil society organizations. Looking at the numbers, I noticed that even Canadian civil society organizations have been getting proportionally less in recent years, compared to multilateral agencies. We need a more balanced approach to these different funding channels.

I would add that Canada has developed a very good funding program in recent years to support small and medium-sized organizations involved in international co-operation. Canada has a lot of them, but because project calls are for such large amounts, they can't access those funding sources. That's why this project is so important to so many smaller organizations in Canada. We hope that this program will be enhanced and made permanent. Increasing the overall budget would also mean fewer trade-offs between different funding channels.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Côté, that sets the stage for my next question.

I can see that it was as much of a surprise to you as it was to me to hear Global Affairs Canada officials say that Canada had not committed to the 0.7% of GDP target. It certainly raised what little hair I have left on my head. That was a surprising statement for sure.

Mr. Dongier, you pointed out that it was easier for Global Affairs Canada to use multilateral agencies to deliver official development assistance. I would almost add that it's also easier—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Bergeron, you're 35 seconds over.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Then we'll come back to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I apologize. I misspoke. You still have 15 seconds.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you very much.

I was saying that it was also easier to go through large organizations, such as the Red Cross. However, as Mr. Côté mentioned, small organizations are often more engaged and have deeper roots in communities, so it may be appropriate to go beyond—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Bergeron, I'm sorry, but you are now definitely over. Not only are you 15 seconds over, but I was actually correct in my assessment. You were 45 seconds over when I brought that to your attention. The clerk thought it was only for five, but you're now a minute and 15 seconds over.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We're going to have to go to Ms. McPherson.

Ms. McPherson, you have five minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It is lovely to see everyone here. This has been a really interesting conversation.

Just like Mr. Epp, I have to come clean that I have worked with Mr. Côté at the Inter-Council Network and have done some work with him in my previous life as well.

Mr. Côté, I'm going to start with you, if I could. On the value of small and medium-sized organizations that are based in communities across Canada, that engage Canadians in global citizenship and in poverty reduction efforts around the world, we know that these organizations are vitally important. I would say that in the last administration, the Harper Conservative government, the cuts to public engagement were huge and had massive impacts on Canadians' abilities to tell the story of poverty reduction around the world. The organizations that bore the brunt of this were the small and medium-sized organizations.

Can you talk about that a little bit? Why would it be beneficial for us to be able to have funding that these small organizations could access?

[Denis Côté]

Yes, small and medium-sized organizations across Canada do excellent work. I have nothing against large organizations, which also do excellent work, but the work of smaller organizations is often overlooked. Many of them have partnerships dating back 10, 20, 30 or 40 years, or even longer in some cases, and they're well established in communities. Their work is generally very effective.

The global citizenship education component you mentioned is really crucial to facilitating Canadians' engagement and their understanding of international issues so they can get involved in what's happening internationally.

Quebec's ministry of international relations and la Francophonie has a budget for global citizenship education activities. If I'm not mistaken, Canada hasn't funded the work that organizations do here for a long time. Whenever we picture international co‑operation organizations, we picture them working abroad. That may indeed be the most important part of their work, but there's also a lot of work being done here to facilitate an understanding of the issues and activities that Canada is involved in abroad, particularly in international co‑operation and solidarity.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes, and I think that, if you cut public engagement efforts around the world, all of a sudden Canadians aren't talking about this, and they don't care as much, or they're not able to recognize the value of global citizenship. When you cut aid to half of what we owe, knowing that other countries around the world are able to accomplish that 0.7% and knowing that this was, in fact, a Pearson promise that was brought forward, it's much easier for the government to do.

We saw cuts to public engagement. Those cuts have not been reimbursed. We are nowhere near, and I would say very clearly that the NDP would have a plan in place, if we were government, to get to the 0.7% in a very fast manner, but I take your point when you talk about the role all organizations play, the small, the medium, the multilateral and large Canadian organizations.

Mr. Harrington, my next question is going to be for you, if you don't mind. It's lovely to see you again.

[Andy Harrington]

It's lovely to see you, too.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You spoke about the weaponization of food. You spoke about how, if we don't deal with hunger, the downstream costs of not dealing with hunger are extraordinary.

Could you talk about some of the ways that we could reduce the risks and build sustainability in fragile contexts? I know you talked about being able to transition, but what does that look like for you?

[Andy Harrington]

That's a great question.

In terms of fragile states, we're talking about some of the world's most awkward places, in a sense, to work in. We're also talking about places where we continually have to go back to do food assistance. There are three aspects to this, I would say.

First of all, as well as doing food assistance in those places or emergency response in those places, we need to be present. This is where the three Ds and T come in for me. We need to be present as Canadians. We need to be present on the development side so we can see a transition and build disaster risk reduction in by building sustainability in as well. We continually have to keep going back to places where there are emergencies happening, supply emergency aid, leave, and it happens again, we come back again, leave, and it happens again. We need to be present. I think Denis said this very well. We need to be present through our local partners as well, who really know the situations there.

That's the first thing I would say. It's that combination of moving away from the silos of real emergency assistance one day, development next year, and bringing those two things together are very important.

I think also within fragile states, there are a lot of resources going to them, but we're not taking the time to really think through how we can apply those resources intelligently working with local partners. A lot of people have indigenous resilience that we don't always take account of, so, when we're when we're dealing with the big block grants that come through, they're covered with all sorts of clauses and all sorts of ways of doing things. Sometimes we get halfway through, and we realize there's a different way and a better way to do it, but we don't have the ability to change on a dime because we're locked in by these grants. As part of that grants and transformation process, I would say that evidence-based management is a key thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go to MP Chong.

You have four minutes, Mr Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing.

I have two questions for all three witnesses.

You're appearing as part of a study on Canada's approach to Africa. The study is also taking place while the Government of Canada is considering how to engage with Africa, including the African Union.

First, if you were responsible for putting together a Canadian strategy for Africa, how would you structure it, what would you prioritize within the strategy and what resources, what money, would you attach to it?

Second, should the strategy be continental in scope, or should it distinguish between north Africa and sub-Saharan Africa? Within that, should it focus on particular subregions of sub-Saharan Africa, whether it be southern Africa, eastern Africa or western Africa?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We'll go with Mr. Harrington first, please.

[Andy Harrington]

Thank you. That's a great question.

There was a great report put out a few years ago by Crestview—it was funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation—called “Opportunity 2050”. It said:

Over the next 30 years, aid, good governance, trade, and employment-generating industries could add over $15 trillion to sub-Saharan Africa's GDP. This in turn, [could generate over 400,000 jobs and] could add up to $2.7 trillion to the Canadian economy during the same time period.

The first thing I would say is be engaged. We are turning away. We are running down things. We need to re-up our commitment there in all of the areas that we've talked about—defence, diplomacy, trade and development.

Do remember that development really does underpin this. My colleagues have talked about how so much money flows through the UN and other organizations. I remember the days of going to Africa and seeing Canadian flags flying over projects that were run by very small to medium-sized organizations.

I would say be engaged. I would say it is a wider African context, but it's a regional context within Africa. You can't see Africa as just one place. The Sahel is very different from sub-Saharan Africa, which is very different from northern Africa, which is very different from southern Africa. We need to have a regional context.

Overall, our engagement needs to take a much higher level. It needs to be really seen as a way that would benefit Canada as well as Africa.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go to Mr. Côté.

Keep it very short. We only have a minute remaining for your response and Mr. Dongier's response.

Thank you.

[Denis Côté]

Thank you very much.

I'm from the development sector, so I would obviously encourage greater engagement in that sector. I'm not saying that economic engagement isn't important, but it's important to remember that development activities also promote economic development in Africa. If we want economic partners as well, that's part of the equation.

I will also give Mr. Dongier time to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you. You're very kind, Mr. Côté.

Mr. Dongier, you have the floor.

[Philippe Dongier]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would say that, given Africa's significant population growth, the primary objective should be to figure out how to achieve rapid but inclusive growth so lots of people can benefit from that growth in a sustainable way. SMEs now make up 80% of Africa's economy, but access to financing and business support services is lacking. They need finance support systems. Which industries should we focus on? There are lots of industries, but one that's very promising for Africa is the agri-food sector. It's very labour-intensive, and it contributes to both food and economic growth needs. We talked about biodiversity earlier. How can we grow the agri-food sector with SMEs in a sustainable way and in a way that builds climate resilience?

We also have to figure out where in Africa we have an advantage. Canada clearly has a special advantage in francophone Africa for the reason touched on earlier. Partnerships in francophone Africa are changing, and Canada has a special role to play in that. We can certainly be active everywhere in Africa, but I would recommend focusing on francophone Africa, and West Africa in particular.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We next go to MP Zuberi. You have four minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today.

I'm going to start with a general question about development assistance.

It's important for us to put things in perspective. Our government has been there to support the sector all this time. We also have to look at what other political party leaders are saying. For example, the leader of the official opposition is promising to cut international development assistance.

If a government of Canada—not our government, our government has always been there for international development—chooses to cut aid, as some have said they promise to do, how would that impact the sector?

I'd like to open up the floor to all the witnesses.

It's just in general terms. It's a theoretical question.