Evidence of meeting #111 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regime.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Dr. Machouf, we're considerably over our time already. Hopefully, we can cover that in response to members' questions.
We now go to Dr. Esmaeilion and Mr. Doustshenas.
You have five minutes. The floor is yours.
5:10 p.m.
Dr. Hamed Esmaeilion Board member of the Association, Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims
Thank you, Mr. Chair,
Thank you, members of the committee.
Fifty days before the downing of flight PS752, more than 1,500 peaceful Iranian protesters were brutally murdered over a few days when the regime cut off the Internet and unleashed its vicious armed forces upon people in the streets in what became known as the Bloody November massacre.
The Boroumand foundation reports that over the past 45 years more than 540 cases of assassinations and bombings have been carried out around the world by the Islamic regime through the IRGC. Over the past decades, this nefarious organization has become a source of terror for Iranians and much of the world.
When we speak of the IRGC, we are referring to a vast nefarious military organization that has a stranglehold on all of Iran's resources, from mines to airports, from the film industry to sports, trading ports, factories, the bazaar and the currency trade, and even to a monopoly on provincial governorship posts. It is a monstrous entity that has no mercy on teachers, workers, artists and ordinary citizens, persecuting, imprisoning, torturing, raping and murdering with impunity to disrupt civil society and destroy any efforts by the people to organize peaceful resistance.
The murder of a beautiful young Iranian woman, Mahsa Jina Amini, opened a new chapter in the book of crimes against humanity by the Islamic regime. During the Woman, Life, Freedom revolution in 2022, when tens of thousands took to the streets in Iran and around the world, the United Nations' fact-finding committee reported at least 551 killings by IRGC forces.
Many of the victims were children and youth who were horrifically murdered around the country. Baluchistan, Kurdistan, Mazandaran and Tehran have suffered the highest casualties during the recent uprising. In only one day, at least 104 citizens were murdered by the IRGC in Baluchistan. Over 130 citizens were blinded by shots to the face.
Toomaj Salehi, the famous Iranian rapper, and many other young Iranian protesters are currently under threat of execution. Many activists are in prison around the country. So far, many young protesters have been executed, while thousands have been arrested and suffer under extreme prison conditions. In only the last year, the Islamic regime has executed 798 citizens, without any accountability towards the people of Iran or the international community.
All of these atrocities emanate from the top echelons of the power in the Islamic regime that is concentrated in the IRGC. This nefarious organization is a menace not only to Iranian society on all levels; it is also a threat to the security of the entire Middle East and the world. Calling the IRGC what it truly is and officially declaring it a terrorist organization is an urgent, necessary action that must be taken without delay in Canada and the rest of the free world.
The families of the Flight PS752 victims' association stand with all the survivors of the victims of this brutal organization in making this demand.
I will pass this on to Mr. Doustshenas.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
Kourosh Doustshenas Representative, Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims
Thank you, Mr. Esmaeilion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
On January 8, 2020, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard launched missile attacks against Ukraine National Airlines' flight PS752 shortly after takeoff from the Tehran international airport. The crew and 177 innocent passengers—many of whom were destined for Canada, including an unborn child—lost their lives in the terrifying attack in southwestern Tehran.
The missile attacks against Flight PS752 were not the first nor the last of the heinous crimes committed by the IRGC against Iranian Canadians. A few years earlier, Iranian-Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi and environmentalist Kavous Seyed-Emami were murdered by the Islamic regime and the IRGC.
The families of the PS752 victims have suffered persecution, threats and inhumane treatment by the Islamic regime over the last five years. UN Human Rights Watch has reported an escalation in torture and mistreatment of families of victims in Iran.
Last October, Mrs. Zarabi, who lost four of her loved ones in the downing of flight PS752, attended the funeral of a young woman named Armita Geravand, who had been murdered by the regime. Mrs. Zarabi was arrested and severely assaulted before being dragged on the ground into custody. A mourning mother of another victim was brutally beaten by IRGC forces at her child's gravesite. Some PS752 families have been banned from leaving Iran to attend the anniversary ceremonies of Flight PS752 victims in Toronto. There are many instances of persecution, threats, and arrests—even some kidnappings—during the anniversary ceremonies that families hold in Iran under severe security conditions.
In the aftermath of the downing of Flight PS752, the victims' families and activists believe that there has been much ambiguity in the Canadian government's position towards the IRGC. On the fourth anniversary of the downing of Flight PS752, we heard from our Prime Minister that he will take the necessary measures in this regard.
Seven months remain until the fifth anniversary of the downing, and we all know that the association expects a clear and swift response to our demand. We believe that since Canada has suffered most from the actions of the IRGC outside of Iran, it must be the first country to officially put the IRGC on the list of terrorist organizations. We hope that this will happen without any further delay.
Thank you kindly.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much, Mr. Doustshenas.
We will start with the questions from the members.
No—my apologies. We have one more witness. Dr. Ziaei is joining us virtually.
My apologies for that: You have five minutes for your opening remarks.
Thank you, Dr. Ziaei.
5:15 p.m.
Hanieh Ziaei Political Scientist and Iranologist, Raoul-Dandurand Chair, UQAM, As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Can everyone hear me well?
5:15 p.m.
Political Scientist and Iranologist, Raoul-Dandurand Chair, UQAM, As an Individual
Mr. Chair, honourable members of the committee, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for this opportunity to speak on the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, or IRGC, in Iran and the current situation in Iran.
It's crucial to distinguish legitimacy from legality when addressing the question of power in Iran. From my research into the ideological-political system of the Islamic Republic of Iran, it is clear that the regime's legitimacy is crumbling considerably. This is illustrated by recurrent protest movements, systematic challenges and increasing absenteeism at elections. For example, in the parliamentary elections of March 1, 2024, turnout was just 41%, the lowest since the establishment of the Islamic Republic in 1979.
I can also give the example of the euphoric reaction following the announcement of President Raisi's death. This reaction is indicative of the state of mind of a significant part of the Iranian population. This sense of relief and joy highlighted the deep opposition and accumulated exasperation regarding a regime perceived as oppressive, authoritarian and illegitimate.
This lack of political legitimacy profoundly weakens the authority of any regime, even if it is not democratic, and this forms an essential basis for assessing its stability and acceptability to the people, in this case the Iranian people.
Iran is currently governed by a political system considered by part of its population to be anachronistic. The Islamic Republic of Iran presents itself as a theocracy, while the country's women and young people aspire to a clear separation between the religious and political spheres. Even non-democratic regimes have to rely on a legitimate and legal basis to maintain their power. Yet how is this regime legitimate in the eyes of the Iranian people, especially after the many testimonies we have heard today?
The actions, practices and deeds of the Islamic Republic of Iran are profoundly illegitimate and illegal, both under international law and international conventions, as are the many human rights abuses it perpetuates. Numerous examples of these abuses have been reported to you by committed collectives such as the Iranian Justice Collective, notably by Ms. Nazanin Afshin‑Jam, Mr. Saeid Dehghan and Ms. Nima Machouf. This is therefore corroborated by the many testimonies of those present here.
I will now talk more specifically about the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Its power has grown considerably since its creation in 1979. Originally, it was a military organization founded to protect the revolutionary values of 1979. Its independence from the traditional Iranian army has enabled it to become an influential and formidable armed force.
The IRGC is not only a military force, it has also become deeply involved in Iran's economy, politics and intelligence services. The strengthening of its means of action and influence has made it a key player in the Iranian political landscape.
The IRGC has transformed itself into a real power within Iran. It controls key sectors of the economy, notably the oil and gas industries, and owns numerous companies that serve as front companies. In addition, it plays a central role in suppressing internal dissent and projecting Iranian influence abroad, as well as supporting various non-state groups in the region.
Today, the Iranian people are courageously fighting against the forced Islamization of society. This is an ideology that, despite the efforts of the IRGC, has partly failed. The Women, Life, Freedom movement is a poignant illustration of this. This struggle for freedom and human rights is not only vital for Iran, but also has repercussions throughout the region and the world.
Islamization by force is a terror that weighs heavily, threatening peace and stability not only in Iran and the Middle East, but also in Europe, Canada and the world, as witnessed by repeated attacks and hostage-takings targeting western nationals.
To conclude, I would say that it is imperative to actively support the Iranian people in their fight against this oppressive ideology.
The future also rests on your political and institutional capacity to highlight the illegitimacy and illegality of the Iranian regime before all international and national bodies. Your role as a defender of democratic and humanist values can considerably strengthen the ability of Iranians to overcome this state repression and re-establish a political system that respects human rights and fundamental freedoms. The international community must stand resolutely alongside those fighting for a free and democratic Iran by vigorously denouncing human rights violations and applying targeted sanctions against their perpetrators.
Thank you for your attention.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much.
We now turn to the members for their questions. I should say that it's more in the nature of rapid-fire questions, given some of the time constraints we have.
For the first round, each member will be provided with three minutes, and we'll start with MP Hoback.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I'm going to have to be very quick here.
Hanieh, I'm just kind of curious. One of the things that we've seen is that these bad actors are showing up here in Canada. What can we do to deal with these bad actors when they're on Canadian soil? How do we identify them? How do we work with the community to identify them?
Then, should they just be deported, or should they actually face trial here in Canada when they are intimidating Iranian citizens and the Iranian diaspora here in Canada?
5:25 p.m.
Political Scientist and Iranologist, Raoul-Dandurand Chair, UQAM, As an Individual
Thank you for your question.
Ms. Nazanin Afshin‑Jam highlighted the fact that today, collectives, associations and the Iranian diaspora are starting to compile data accompanied by photos and identification elements. The Canadian government also has the means to first identify these people on Canadian territory. Today, with digital technology, it is easy to identify these people arriving on Canadian soil. The work could obviously be done in collaboration with the Iranians, who are also in the process of gathering all these data, photos and identification materials.
This is really work that needs to be done with the organizations mentioned here and by Ms. Nazanin Afshin‑Jam at the beginning of her presentation. It needs to be done on a regular basis, and in the short, medium and long term. It would therefore be very important to set time targets for the tasks to be carried out. The Iranian diaspora can also be an ally for the Canadian government.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Again, I just want to make sure that there's a system in place so that if somebody is facing threats and intimidation here in Canada or their family members are facing that back in Iran, it is identified and there's actually a mechanism to deal with it.
I'm running out of time here. I'm sitting here trying to figure out why the IRGC isn't a terrorist organization. I cannot see why this hasn't happened yet. Can anybody give me some insight into what's holding things up? This is crazy.
Nina, what do you think?
5:25 p.m.
Epidemiologist, researcher, As an Individual
We don't understand it either. As my colleague mentioned earlier, the reasons given by the government are that, if it puts the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps on the list of terrorist organizations, this could perhaps lead it to sanction more than necessary. People could therefore be unfairly punished. However, there are already sanctions in place against Iran. Transactions are restricted, for example.
In general, since members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps arrive here with a lot of money, they are able to slip through the cracks of the system. On the other hand, people who are arrested because of their banking transactions, such as artists who have been to Iran and come back to present a project, are told that their project will be accepted. So we have to use the right means.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you. Yes, you're well over three minutes.
We now go to MP Oliphant. You have three minutes.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses in both panels. It's always helpful.
I'm going to turn to the families of the PS752 group. I want to give you notice that I may be asking our committee to bring you back because I think your work is critical to Canada's commitment in the world. I'd hope that you are in more of our accountability sessions, but I do want to give you a chance to say a few more things.
I want to talk particularly about the experience of foreign influence on family members and survivors, as well as on activists in Canada who may have spoken out against the regime in Canada.
It could be either Hamed or—I never use your last names—Kourosh who speak to that. Thank you. You have the rest of my time to talk about this.
5:25 p.m.
Board member of the Association, Association of Families of Flight PS752 Victims
Okay.
As I testified at the foreign interference commission a few months ago, I think we need to believe in the extent of the foreign interference of the Islamic regime in Canada. This is the first step that we have to take.
I gave an example there. We have a former banker of the Islamic regime, Mahmoud Reza Khavari, here in Canada. We had the former chief of police, Morteza Talaei, in Canada. The former minister of health, Ghazizadeh Hashemi, who intimidated and threatened the families of PS752, was in Canada last summer. He said that when he went back, there would be retaliations against the families' actions. We had the current speaker of the house of the regime, the man who was nominated for presidency today in Iran. His son applied to come to Canada a few months ago, and he started a lawsuit against the Canadian government, saying that it was not accepting him fast enough as an immigrant here in this country.
As I said, we have the former banker, the former chief of police, the former minister and the speaker of the house. Who's next? I'm not surprised anymore if I see the supreme leader of Iran walking on the streets of Toronto, you know. This can happen any day, and we are talking about hundreds of them. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
I think none of you would be comfortable if you knew, for example, that the son of the current speaker of the house is your neighbour in Canada and that the chief of the police was working out in a gym two kilometres from my house, three kilometres from where my wife and my daughter are buried because of PS752. Do you feel safe in this condition? I don't think so.
I want to talk about money laundering as well. If you could observe a lot of currency exchange stores that we have north of Toronto, you will see the amount of money that comes to Canada from the IRGC for money laundering. That is why we don't feel safe in this country.
Thank you.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Yes, that is time, Mr. Oliphant, I'm afraid.
Now we go to Mr. Bergeron.
You have three minutes, sir.
5:30 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Ms. Ziaei.
Ms. Ziaei, you mentioned the enthusiasm that followed the accidental death of President Raisi in the helicopter crash on May 19. Elections will be held on June 28. You also mentioned the low turnout at the last presidential elections.
What are your predictions for these elections, given what may appear to be a contradiction, i.e., the enthusiasm following the death of the president, on the one hand, and this low turnout, on the other? What can we expect on June 28?
5:30 p.m.
Political Scientist and Iranologist, Raoul-Dandurand Chair, UQAM, As an Individual
We can expect the same high abstention rate. Iranians also sometimes have this opportunity to demonstrate their dissatisfaction with this regime and show that they no longer consider it legitimate or, above all, representative. It is therefore possible that Iranians will not go to the polls. This is one hypothesis. It's also possible that this will lead to other types of demonstrations.
The main question for the weeks, months and even years to come revolves above all around the succession of the supreme leader. Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei is old, and is thought to be ill. President Raisi was a possible candidate, the assumption being that his position as president was a stepping stone to the supreme leader's seat.
The whole debate will focus more on the succession of the supreme leader than on the elections. Indeed, we know that, in the end, it is the supreme leader who has absolute power. He delegates responsibilities to other organizations, but he holds veto power at the top of the hierarchy, which is very pyramidal as far as institutional power is concerned.
5:30 p.m.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
I'd like to go back to the elections.
You've given us a bit of an indication of what's likely to happen on June 28, but what do you think will happen after that?
Can we imagine that there will be a palace revolution, or, on the contrary, will the power structure be confirmed and maintained?
June 3rd, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.
Political Scientist and Iranologist, Raoul-Dandurand Chair, UQAM, As an Individual
As we've seen in all the presidential elections, there may not be any real change. It remains a clan, a fairly closed political class. A distinction is made between reformers, conservatives and ultraconservatives, but in the end, none of these trends challenge the system or the Islamic Republic of Iran. This is why the regime's legitimacy will continue to erode.
The Iranian population wants definitive change, i.e., they don't want to move from a conservative government to an ultraconservative one, or even to a reformist one.