Foreign Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

My French is rusty so I'll answer in English.

Under the shah, there was the Iranian army. There were those who were under his.... The army continued on after the 1979 revolution. Many were executed at that point, but some were.... I would say that the function of the army is to protect the sovereignty and territory and, to a certain extent, to protect the lives of those inside Iran from, let's just say, war from outside.

Those who are in positions of power generally have some adherence to the supreme leader and to the tenets of the Islamic republic. I wouldn't say that everybody in the Iranian army is safe or trustworthy, but definitely, at the core of the IRGC, their main role—their only role—is to protect the Islamic regime establishment.

That's why you'll note that the name “Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps” doesn't have the word “Iranian” in it. They're not there to protect the Iranian people; they're there only to protect their regime and the expansion of this Islamist ideology.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

You have called for stronger sanctions under the special economic measures and, more specifically, the Sergei Magnitsky Law.

To date, the RCMP has frozen assets totalling just $79,000. These numbers are from May 2024, just a few days ago.

Do you really believe that sanctions are a good way to put pressure on the Iranian regime?

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

I think we should definitely list the IRGC, but in the meantime, we should continue to sanction those who are part of this regime.

The Canadian government has already listed a number of officials from the Islamic regime, but we definitely need to add more. In fact, the Iranian Justice Collective has done a new report that we have started to circulate to members of Parliament from all parties. You should be receiving it in your emails in the next few days. It names 20 top officials who are part of the Iranian judiciary and the court system, and we have it listed under the words “TOOMAJ sanctions”.

Toomaj, of course, is a rap artist who's become a hero inside Iran for his lyrics—lyrics against oppression inside Iran. He's now on death row, so we use his name to honour him and to use the acronym “TOOMAJ”, which stands for “targeting oppressive officers to mitigate abuse in the Iranian judiciary”. We've listed 20 names, although this is just 20 among so many others.

I'd also like to point your attention to a website called facesofcrime.org, where there is an organization by the name of “Justice for Iran” that has created a database of regime officials. It provides their pictures and it cites their titles and what they're criminally responsible for, the types of human rights abuses that they're responsible for. This is a really good tool to refer to our border agencies, you parliamentarians or other security forces inside Canada, such as the RCMP, if there are citizens from Iran trying to come into Canada, because it lists who is implicated in human rights abuses or crimes against humanity.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Both witnesses referred to the system—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have two seconds left.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Two seconds?

Alright.

I will get back to it later, then.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Next we go to MP Aboultaif, but I understand—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I think it may be me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Oh, my apologies, Madam McPherson. You have six minutes. The floor is yours.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I know you're always getting mixed up. I understand, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the witnesses for being here, and thank you for this important testimony.

I brought forward the motion to do this study in this committee because of what we saw during the Woman, Life, Freedom movement and the calls that I've heard from members of my community, members of the Iranian community who have been asking for this work to be done. Your advocacy over the last number of months and years has been vital for us to be able to do the work.

The goal of this study is to find out what Canada can do, what more Canada needs to do, to help support Iranian Canadians and help support Iranians who are having their human rights taken away from them.

You spoke about the disproportionate impact on women, the gender apartheid that we see against women. Just this morning, actually, I saw online that there are political prisoners, women political prisoners in Evin Prison, who have requested that Narges Mohammadi have her trial undertaken in public.

For me, I'm interested.... You talked a little bit about the use of torture and how the regime is doing things in secrecy to inflict pain and suffering on the Iranian people. In this particular situation, can you talk a little bit about why it's so important that this trial is done in public, and what that indicates for how this regime is working right now?

Perhaps I would start with you, Mr. Dehghan.

[Saeid Dehghan]

[Witness spoke in Persian, interpreted as follows]

I think the answer to your question is contained within it. When there is a trial, although there are regulations, the trial is political, and the trial has to be in Arabic, yet in 43 years or so, we have not seen one trial that is public. It shows that when everything is done in a clandestine fashion, it is not a trial. It is already decided.

Narges Mohammadi is also convicted of propaganda against the regime. This is exactly the most political accusation. Again, it took place behind court doors and without a jury. This shows that because of the corruption of the judicial system, this security work, there is absolutely no relation to the Islamic Republic.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Ms. Afshin-Jam, would you like to add anything?

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

I'll just repeat basically what Mr. Dehghan was saying.

Inside Iran, as I said, there is no rule of law. There are no proper courts. When they're doing this, they're making an example.

Basically, Narges Mohammadi, for those of you who are not aware, is the Nobel Peace Prize laureate.

Oftentimes these trials are kangaroo courts, so they're not proper trials. The victim is normally not given proper legal representation, and if they're going to allow this publicly, it's going to be just a trick to try to show the international community that there's some semblance of order.

However, let's not forget that oftentimes victims are forced into confessions. They're tortured behind the scenes or they're told that their family members will be raped or killed if they testify, so it is all a circus act. I hope it is public just so that the international community can see for themselves, but it's not to be trusted, ever.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Of course. We saw that after the horrific attack on civilians in the downing of PS752, when they shot innocent people and murdered them. What we saw was the intimidation that was then directed towards the families of those who had lost their lives in Canada and in Iran.

You spoke as well about Toomaj, and we know he has been sentenced to death. We know there is targeting of cultural personalities, artists, authors and folks who are representing the Iranian people, and the targeting of them is a message as well.

What more should Canada be doing? We have members within Parliament.... My own colleague Bonita Zarrillo has been very outspoken in her support for Toomaj.

What else can we be doing to protect folks in these situations? Also, what does it mean to Iranian people when the cultural icons of their country are being murdered?

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

That's a good question.

For those of you who don't know, Toomaj is a prominent rap artist inside Iran who is loved by most Iranians not only because of his art and songs but more so because of his bravery and the courage in his lyrics, which touch the population's hearts and minds and address all the social ills committed by this regime, such as corruption and the oppression of all the citizenry. He has become a hero, really—a larger-than-life figure—inside Iran. The regime has imprisoned him, tortured him and injected him with unknown substances, and he now has a death sentence against him.

There's a petition signed by over 500,000 people asking the international community to pressure the Islamic regime into giving him a stay of execution. I think that's the only thing you can do as parliamentarians. When I used to run the Stop Child Executions organization, we noticed that parliamentarians who were pushing on these individual cases were the ones who were giving this stay of execution.

Therefore, continue saying their names and exacting a price for these crimes against humanity and these abuses. That means listing the IRGC, imposing Magnitsky sanctions and getting more—

Okay. I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm sorry. I'm going to have to cut you off.

We will now go to MP Aboultaif. You have five minutes, sir.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses, and welcome to the committee.

I'll go quickly to a question for both of you, if each of you wants to answer.

I feel that there is a level of hesitation in moving forward and acting on listing the IRGC as a terrorist organization by the governments in Europe and Canada. Could you explain that? Is there a wisdom we don't know about? What can you tell us?

Can I start with you, Ms. Afshin-Jam?

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

I wish I had that answer. In fact, that's a question that we have posed repeatedly to members of Parliament here in Canada, in the U.K. and in Europe, asking, what is the hesitation?

There are a few things that come up sometimes. One is that they say that they're afraid of of targeting innocent people, the forced conscripts. In Iran, adult men have to do two years of military service. It's mandatory. The question, therefore, is whether innocent people will be targeted if they are trying to come into Canada, and the answer is simple. For those who are conscripted, at the end of their two-year term, they are given an identity card that says the day that they enlisted and the day that their service ended. If it shows that it's approximately in that two-year mark, then one can differentiate them from somebody who has spent their life serving the IRGC.

Also, people have the choice. When they do their military service, they can choose the army or the IRGC, so already they are making an informed decision by choosing. For those who have low clerical jobs working in an office at the IRGC, again, their position is listed on the identity card, so we can bypass them, if that's the real concern here, but we're never given the real reason.

That's why I say to please let us know what the impediment is. We have the legal experts. We have the task force that is happy to solve these matters. If it's a question of cost in terms of getting more RCMP, more CSIS members to control this, well, you have to ask yourselves, what is the cost of a human life?

I know it's coming here to Canada. We are already seeing assassinations happening and kidnappings. The next thing you know, we will have terrorism on Canadian soil, and then how will each one of you be able to look in the faces of the Canadian public and say why we did not list the IRGC on the terrorist list?

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Dehghan.

[Saeid Dehghan]

[Witness spoke in Persian, interpreted as follows:]

Considering that, I think we need to make sure that we really differentiate between those who are in the army. We have no option. There is an option whether they choose the Sepah, the police or the army when they are forced to go there.

First of all, the IRGC must be announced on the list of terrorists, and then we can separate and differentiate the other people.

This is just like the Taliban in Afghanistan, with the difference that Sepah is in the shadow of the government, which has taken over the public. In the 1990s, in South Africa, apartheid was done there. This is like an octopus whose extended arm has covered the people of Iran.

All we have to do is add this one item to it. This is something that Canada has to take over, and it has happened in the past.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have 20 seconds.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Then I have just a quick question to Ms. Afshin-Jam.

Are we out of control on the IRGC activities in Canada? If we decide to act on it the way we should, do we still have the capacity, and are we going to be able to do that?

[Nazanin Afshin-Jam]

I'm sorry—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Please go very quickly.