Foreign Affairs Committee on Sept. 26th, 2024

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Is there a difference between Russia as a state and the Wagner group, or is the Wagner group the sole operator there?

[Caroline Delany]

There's only a certain amount that I'll be able to talk about in this venue, but there is a difference. There's also a significant difference with regard to how Wagner can or can't operate now. There's been a real shift since the death of Prigozhin with the movement of the Russian ministry of defence to take over much more control with respect to how these private military contractors work.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I don't understand why you'd be limited to talk in this venue about the changes in Russian attitude in Sudan.

[Caroline Delany]

It's just in terms of what we can discuss in an open setting like this.

Certainly at this point, Russia's engagement is more driven by the government as opposed to Wagner.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Is there a conflict between Russia and China over port access?

[Caroline Delany]

I can't comment on that. It's not something I know enough about to be able to speculate in this venue.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

My friend Mr. Oliphant was talking about the export of food, and an extraordinary amount of food seems to go to the UAE, I assume to the detriment of the people of Sudan. Is the UAE a beneficiary of this conflict?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Answer very briefly, please.

[Caroline Delany]

I can't comment on the export. That's not information that I have. As I mentioned earlier, I am not aware of where food exports go from Sudan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Mr. Bergeron, you have two minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Delany, on a number of occasions, you have told us that several countries have chosen to set up their mission for Sudan in Ethiopia, which is also home to the African Union headquarters. The AU has called for an immediate end to the fighting and has said it is concerned about the security situation in the Sudanese provinces.

In Canada's view, what role can the African Union play in resolving this conflict?

[Caroline Delany]

As the members are likely aware, Canada now has a representative to the African Union, in recognition of the significant and important role that the African Union plays on the continent, including in peace and security. The challenge in Sudan, though, is that there are so many actors who are seeking ways forward with these particular belligerents and others in terms of a ceasefire.

Canada does support the African Union efforts at supporting dialogue, particularly ones that they've hosted where they are broad and inclusive with regard to civilian actors; but, like the other parties there, they are also having trouble finding a way forward.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Given that there is no shortage of challenging situations in Africa, what could help the African Union play a more active and effective role, one that is likely to be more successful?

[Caroline Delany]

I wish I had it on hand, and maybe we can submit something in writing on how Canada engages with the African Union on peace and security, because there is quite direct engagement and support for their capacity, including to engage in mediation and other activities.

On this particular issue, we have engaged, we've asked and we've offered Canadian support, so they know that we're there if they need it. We can come back to you in writing on how we engage with them more generally on peace and security.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Delany.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

Madam McPherson, you have two minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

This is a question for you, Ambassador. I'd like to go back to the report we saw from MSF, which states:

This is a crisis unlike any other I have seen in my career. Multiple health emergencies are happening simultaneously with almost no international response from the UN and others. Newborn babies, pregnant women, and new mothers are dying in shocking numbers. And so many of these deaths are due to preventable conditions, but almost everything has broken down.

They further say that for this crisis to be addressed, the United Nations “must act decisively” and “must accelerate” the return of staff. As well, more resources must be made available.

What other things can we do to alleviate this crisis that is clearly targeting women, Ambassador?

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

Thank you for that. I read the same report. I think it said that the majority of deaths were caused by sepsis, which is exceptionally preventable in both newborns and their mothers.

We need more money committed overall. This was a core appeal from everyone who was around the table in Switzerland and who had been advocating for this for a long time. We talked about Canada fulfilling its commitments made at the Paris conference, effectively a pledging and donor conference. Many of those commitments have not been delivered upon. Many people talk about the importance of encouraging all our partners to deliver on the commitments they have made and to increase the commitments they have made.

Ultimately, the full addressing of the issue requires peace. There's only a degree to which even increased UN presence in supplies can be functional without a functioning or stable health care system, and with no regular aerial attacks on those delivering assistance. It's about continuing to pressure parties to the talks and pressure humanitarian pause, access or anything that will enable the service itself to get delivered.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

And increased resources, of course.

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

Always; always.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's my two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Madam McPherson.

We now go to Mr. Chong.

Mr. Chong, you have three minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you.

Often in these conflicts, what fuels the conflict is the ability to get U.S. dollars. One of Sudan's top exports, as mentioned, is agriculture and oilseeds, but the top export is gold. Gold exports have not diminished at all throughout this conflict. Our understanding is that a lot of that ends up getting smuggled out of the country. I'm sure it's in return for U.S. dollars. That in turn fuels the purchase of military kit and equipment.

What is the Government of Canada doing to ensure that none of those illicit proceeds are being laundered through our financial system? I ask that in the context of the recent $3-billion provision that TD Bank has set aside and the recent resignation of the TD Bank CEO in light of money-laundering operations that have been conducted through the bank in the United States. There were FINTRAC fines levelled against big Canadian banks late last year and early this year for failing to comply with anti-money laundering legislation. Other fines have been levied against Canadian banks by the U.S. authorities.

What are we doing to ensure that no monies are being laundered through our financial system with respect to what's happening in Sudan?

[Caroline Delany]

Mr. Chair, I think the comments about the challenge of the export of gold and the degree to which it funds the two belligerents in this are really pertinent. It's a real and significant challenge for the international community, with Canada being part of that, to tackle this in terms of finding a way to cut off the financing to these belligerents and their ability to buy weapons.

Unfortunately, I can't comment on how our financial institutions can prevent that. We can look into it and see if there's a way to come back in writing, but it is somewhat outside my remit.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I ask it because the minister imposed sanctions, I believe earlier this year, on individuals and entities in Sudan. The enforcement of those sanctions is now important. The federal government is in the process of implementing a beneficial ownership registry for federally incorporated entities under the Canada Business Corporations Act. It's undertaking other measures to combat money laundering.

I'm curious to know what GAC's role is in all of this, as the lead on sanctions. Sanctions enforcement is to prevent any illicit monies going through our system that fuel conflicts like the one in Sudan.