Foreign Affairs Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I have a a point of order.

I have sought clarity from the legislative clerk on this, and I think what we will be proposing is that we will be voting no on the bill carrying and no that the chair should report the bill to the House and no on it being reprinted.

However, we will then be presenting a motion with respect under Standing Order 97.1 that we make a report to the House regarding our consideration of the bill.

I just wanted to clarify with the legislative clerk that we can do what I'm saying. I can go through the process of Standing Order 97.1 and I have a motion related to Standing Order 97.1, but I wanted to make sure that I am clear that we could still do those three votes. They could pass or they could fail, and I think they may fail, but then we could do our motion that the committee recommends that the House do not proceed further, and that would trigger an automatic concurrence debate in the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Could we go to the legislative clerk?

[Jacques Maziade]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just on your first question, it's up to the members to vote yes or no on the three last questions.

If, as I was explaining in giving the information to the chair, the committee votes no on the question of “Shall the chair report the bill as amended to the House?”, then the chair cannot report the bill as voted back to the House. It means that the bill will be deemed reported back to the House without amendments. It means that all the amendments that the committee has adopted so far will not be reported back to the House, because you don't give the chair the authority to table the report in the House.

On your last question—and correct me if I'm wrong—yes, you can move a motion afterward, according to Standing Order 97.1, telling the House not to proceed further with this bill. The House will decide what they want to do with that, but the chair will have to table the motion if the motion is adopted. It's a debatable motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Can I speak further to that point of order?

I will be very clear that I heard the point of order. We didn't get to add to the point of order that Mr. Bergeron made.

With respect to the objects of the bill, the concerns raised by the author of the bill and the concerns raised by a couple of the witnesses we heard, I will say that we have heard this. I think that we could benefit from a concurrence debate on a deemed-reported bill. However, we would still be very loath to not listen to the expert witnesses who looked at both the lack of a need for such a bill and also the danger in this particular bill.

We will be voting no on these, but then I will be presenting such a motion under Standing Order 97.1 that then has a process, which I will explain at the next point.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Could the legislative clerk clarify to the committee how this committee, under Standing Order 97.1, would report to the House a report “not to proceed further with the bill, and giving the reasons therefor”? Standing Order 97.1 says that the committee must “either report the bill to the House”, amended or unamended, or report to the House “a recommendation not to proceed further with the bill, and giving the reasons therefor”. What is the procedure by which to accomplish that second option under Standing Order 97.1?

[Jacques Maziade]

The committee has to debate the motion. If Mr. Oliphant wants to move the motion, you debate it. If it's adopted, the motion will be—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay. In other words, what Mr. Oliphant is proposing would lead to the following process: We would negative the question “Shall the chair report the bill to the House?”.

[Jacques Maziade]

It's a completely separate process.

You finish the bill, the three questions—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay. The report, then, to the House is that the bill “not...proceed further”, “giving the reasons therefor”. That is not accomplished by adopting the motion “Shall the chair report the bill to the House?”.

[Jacques Maziade]

Yes, absolutely. You can first report the bill as adopted. Second, you can have the motion asking the House “not to proceed further with....”

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Then would the chair report two reports to the House?

[Jacques Maziade]

Do you mean with regard to Standing Order 97.1?

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

If the question “Shall the chair report the bill to the House?” is adopted, then the chair will report that to the House.

[Jacques Maziade]

Yes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Then there would be a second report to the House under what Mr. Oliphant is proposing. Is that correct?

[Jacques Maziade]

Yes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Bergeron is next.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

The question before us is whether the committee directs the chair to report the bill as amended to the House.

Does the chair also have to report the fact that the bill was not passed in committee?

[Jacques Maziade]

This matter is not included in the final report. The chair will report on the amendments adopted and the articles rejected. It is only on this that the chair reports to the House.

The question of whether the bill as amended is adopted allows committee members to debate the final form of the bill.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

The House is therefore not informed that the bill was rejected in committee.

[Jacques Maziade]

The House is informed of the decisions you have made to date.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Does this include the fact that we rejected the bill in committee?