Foreign Affairs Committee on May 16th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Ms. Vanni and Mr. Duncan.

Our final series of questions this morning goes to Ms. Fry for five minutes, please.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, everyone.

Ms. Vanni, you are doing a yeoman's job here, answering all of the questions thrown at you. I want to thank you for your knowledge and for spending the time to talk to us about this.

I have only five minutes and I need to ask you a couple of questions. First, what about the old vaccine for tuberculosis? Does that work? Are we still giving them out? I don't know if we're doing that. Now that we have the drug-resistant tuberculosis, why is it we have it in only certain countries? Is there work being done on new drugs? This is a moving target. As we well know, the tubercle bacillus is able to evolve as new drugs come in. What is your hope for tuberculosis?

I also need to ask you about malaria and HIV, so perhaps you could make that short and quick. Thank you.

[Françoise Vanni]

I'll try. Thank you very much for your question.

Let me start by saying that tuberculosis is underfunded. We are not following the high-level summit on tuberculosis that was held in New York three years ago. It's underfunded. Across the three diseases, it's the one that kills the most people—1.6 million a year.

Multidrug-resistant TB is a high risk for global health security. MDR-related deaths already represent a third of the deaths in the world related to antimicrobial resistance. That is very, very critical. There is indeed a lot of effort being put into the search for new drugs for MDR-TB. Indeed, this absolutely is one of our key areas of work.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Malaria is still a difficult problem. I remember back in the fifties and sixties that the eradication of the mosquito was very important. In many countries, removing standing water and all of those kinds of preventative measures were very successful, but then so was the drug DDT, which is gone now. What do we have in order to actually kill the mosquito that carries malaria?

The final question, which you can perhaps answer at the same time, is about HIV. As you said, for AIDS we have the treatment and are bringing down deaths from AIDS, but for the actual HIV infections, I find it astounding that it is twice as high amongst 15- to 24-year-old girls. You gave the reasons, but what are we going to be able to do to change some of those things? I know that a lot of these girls don't even have access to contraception. If it's early marriage, what do they do when it's their husbands who actually bring the virus into them? What do they do? How can you change that? Those are cultural practices. Those are economic practices. This is a very difficult thing to try to prevent.

[Françoise Vanni]

Those are massive questions, and I can see the chair in front of me telling me not to take too long.

On malaria, the interventions vary greatly between, for example, a high-burden setting like the Sahel or an area where the incidents are not too high but you want to eliminate malaria. Let's remember that our goal is to eliminate malaria. Sometimes this last mile, such as in the Mekong area where the rates are not very high, to reach elimination requires very focused interventions so that we can eliminate it. Then it's done. We don't need to go back to that.

So it varies, but one thing we've been investing in a lot is a new generation of bed nets that can be much more effective against the vector. We're investing a lot in that area. On HIV....

The chair is asking to me wrap up.

It's a mix of interventions. We find ourselves investing in areas that are very far from biomedical inventions—giving money to girls so that they stay in school, strengthening girls' empowerment groups, running programs to prevent gender-based violence, supporting adolescent-friendly prevention programs and sexual education programs.

We're investing in all of that, but the only way we can do that is through partners. It's not the Global Fund that does that. It's working with communities through societal organizations, youth organizations and women's organizations on the ground. Through doing that, we can address the high level of prevalence in adolescent girls and young women, and similarly with key populations. That's the model we need to fight—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Dr. Fry, thank you very much. We'll have to leave it there in the interest of time. I apologize.

Ms. Vanni, on behalf of the committee, I want to thank you for being with us today. We appreciate your expertise and, above all, the important work you are doing.

Again, Ms. Vanni, our deepest thanks for your appearance today.

[Françoise Vanni]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Colleagues, we have a few points of business to discuss. The first portion of the next hour is intended to be in public. It's the half-hour session to discuss a number of motions, including one by Mr. Chong. Then there is an in camera portion, where we have a number of housekeeping items as well. Hopefully, we will get to that in about half an hour.

I would like to give the floor to Mr. Chong for the introduction of his motion, please.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I move the following:

That the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development supports the full participation of Taiwan in the International Civil Aviation Organization and its 41st Triennial Assembly to be held on September 27, 2022–October 14, 2022, and that this be reported to the House as soon as possible, and that the committee request a government response.

Mr. Chair, I am moving this motion because I think it's important that the committee voice its support for Taiwan's inclusion in the upcoming assembly of ICAO. I believe the health committee is moving a similar motion with respect to Taiwan's participation at the World Health Assembly.

I think Taiwan has much to contribute in the area of international aviation as well as in the area of global health. I think it would be useful for the committee to adopt this motion. That's why I asked you to set some time aside for deliberation on this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Chong, thank you very much.

With the support of the clerk, we will work on achieving an integrated speakers list from colleagues who are connected virtually and in person.

Who wishes to intervene?

I see Mr. Oliphant.

If you're online and you wish to speak, just signal to the clerk by raising your hand virtually.

Monsieur Bergeron; okay.

It will be Mr. Oliphant and then Monsieur Bergeron.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's nice to be back. I've missed you. I hope you missed me while I was away doing government business.

I very much appreciate and support the intent of the motion. I think that there is unanimity around this table about the importance of finding ways for Taiwan to participate, not only for the benefit of Taiwan, but for the benefit of the world. There are meaningful ways that Taiwan can participate in international organizations. We have not only seen that through the pandemic, but previously as well. There have been many options and opportunities for Taiwan's wisdom, expertise and contribution, which is not unique from the Asia-Pacific countries. It is significant, interesting and important for us to be in constant communication with Taiwan on their opinions, attitudes and insights. I'm absolutely supportive of the intent of the motion.

I have one concern with the motion. That concern relates to our engagement multilaterally and our respect for the organizations of which we are a part. They have set their own rules for membership and concerns about how members become members, participate, etc. I want to be somewhat sensitive to our responsibility as one partner in a multilateral organization, despite the fact that we have a particular interest. Maybe it is unique in this one, as an international organization housed in Canada. I think that we still want to add something to this motion that respects the right of that body in its own way of engaging in memberships.

I am going to propose an amendment. The first amendment would be inserting after “participation of Taiwan in the International Civil Aviation Organization” the phrase “while respecting the membership requirements of the organization”.

I think that we, as a multilateral country, are a middle-sized power, and this is the way Canada operates best. We find ways to engage through UN organizations and other organizations and bodies that come together, whether it's on trade, health or anything else. This one's civil aviation. I think that we should at least acknowledge that.

The insert then would be the words “while respecting the membership requirements of the organization”. That would be my suggestion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Oliphant.

It is moved as an amendment, to be clear.

Mr. Bergeron, you're on the speaking list. Would you like to speak to the amendment, or would you prefer to speak to the main motion after?

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I can definitely speak to the amendment, Mr. Chair. If that's what we need to do to make sure Mr. Chong's motion passes unanimously—and I have no doubt it will—I'm willing to support Mr. Oliphant's amendment.

I believe it's important to support Taiwan's participation in international organizations where it can make a valuable and relevant contribution. That is the case with the International Civil Aviation Organization given how many millions of passengers transit through Taiwan every year. Despite not being a member, Taiwan adheres to most, if not all, of ICAO's regulations. As you can imagine, if Taiwan remains outside the organization, it could eventually decide to stop adhering to ICAO regulations, and that could have huge consequences on air traffic in the oh-so-important Asia-Pacific region.

I think there is unanimous agreement on the need to admit Taiwan to the organization. By the way, I fully recognize that each of the international organizations in question has its own set of rules for membership.

Although I support Mr. Oliphant's amendment, I do have a comment. We are being extremely cautious in the case of ICAO, but the Canadian government was not nearly as concerned about Taiwan's potential membership in the World Health Organization and World Health Assembly. It did not express the same desire to specifically recognize the membership rules of those organizations. Nevertheless, I do appreciate that an organization's membership rules take precedence, of course. For that reason, I support both Mr. Oliphant's amendment and Mr. Chong's motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.

On the list, I have Mr. Chong and Ms. McPherson.

Mr. Chong, over to you.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I support Mr. Oliphant's amendment. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chong.

Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would also like to reiterate that Taiwan has an awful lot to offer, and so I support both the amendment and the motion..

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

I'm just looking at the room and virtually. Are there any other interventions on Mr. Oliphant's amendment. Seeing none, can we pass the amendment unanimously?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're back to the main motion. Is there any discussion on the main motion as amended, either in the room or virtually?

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you very much.

We are still in the public portion of committee business. Are there any other items that members wish to bring forward?

Dr. Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to bring forward a motion. I think you all have it in front of you. It is:That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), given recent reports of international backsliding related to women’s sexual and reproductive health and rights, the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs undertake a comprehensive study on the global access to the full range

—and I underscore “full range”— of health services, including family planning and modern contraception; comprehensive sexuality education; safe and legal abortion and post-abortion care; laws restricting or prohibiting women’s rights to abortion, the medical and socioeconomic importance of maintaining the right to access safe abortion; and prevention and treatment of HIV/AIDS and sexually transmitted infections and what actions Canada can undertake to support women’s sexual and reproductive health and rights globally; that the committee hold no fewer than (5) five meetings; and that the committee report its findings to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Dr. Fry.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Chair? Sorry, did want me to elaborate on the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

If you wish to, you can. Members have heard the motion as you read it.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Yes, I'd like to elaborate on the reason for the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Let me pause you for one second, Dr. Fry.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. Is Madam Fry moving the motion right now or is she giving notice of motion?