Evidence of meeting #21 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Françoise Vanni  Director, External Relations and Communications, Global Fund To Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Erica Pereira

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I would like to point out that the member has assumed or made the accusation, veiled as it may be, that the NDP has been working to bring this forward as a political thing. I brought a similar motion forward at the international human rights subcommittee because it is vitally important for women and because I'm a mother, I have a daughter and I am a daughter. It has nothing to do with any political machinations, so I'd like the member to withdraw—

3:40 p.m.

Bloc

The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron

I hate to have to interrupt you, Ms. McPherson, but I don't think that's a point of order. It's actually a point of debate, and since you're the next person on the speaking list, you'll get the chance to have your say. Thank you.

Please continue, Mr. Genuis.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your ruling. If it's not out of order, I want to take the opportunity to wish the member a happy anniversary. I saw that on social media.

The member is up next, of course, and she is welcome to—and I suspect she will— disagree with a number of the points I've made, but I've presented my perspective on the issue respectfully, as I see it, and welcome the opportunity to hear the views of other members as well.

As I was saying, other committees can do what other committees wish, of course, but in the particular global context we're dealing with in terms of foreign affairs, we have said that we'd have a discussion at a future date about the future agenda of this committee. At the very least, let's make sure we complete the work required on all of the studies that are in front of us. That was our first proposal.

We proposed a number of motions to refer this to the subcommittee on agenda and procedure. The normal process is that the subcommittee on agenda and procedure receives various recommendations from members, and then there's a discussion in the spirit of co-operation about how to manage the committee's agenda in a way that makes sense, given the different ideas that come forward from members. We initially proposed to refer this issue to the subcommittee on agenda and procedure. Our friends in the other parties, through their votes, expressed that they didn't want to do that, so we asked if we could adjourn debate until we had completed all of the existing studies and return to this question of the agenda once we had completed our existing studies. Again, that was opposed.

We're back to a very precise and a very reasonable appeal through the motion that I moved, which is to simply adjourn debate on this question until we've completed our work on Ukraine.

Given what's going on in Ukraine.... Frankly, just given my observations about the public comments, the social media comments and comments in the House of many members on this committee, it seemed that, up until this motion was moved, there was a clear consensus that Ukraine was and is the urgent foreign policy priority in front of us. I understand that members on the committee may agree, yet there may be a PMO-driven strategy that says it wants the foreign affairs committee to be talking about something it decides is in its political interest to talk about rather than what's urgently before the committee.

As it happens, I'm a former PMO staffer myself, so maybe at another time I can make some confessions with respect to that—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Chair, on a point of order, I'm not sure what the Prime Minister's Office or any supposed strategy has to do with the amendment that is being proposed, so my point of order would be on lack of relevance. I do not understand where the member is going, and as many of us have said many times, we're happy to complete the study on Ukraine, the study that I brought forward as a matter of priority.

We simply want to vote on this motion.

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron

Thank you, Ms. Bendayan.

I have previously pointed out that the chair has always given a wide interpretation to the relevance criterion. I don't want to put words in the member's mouth, but I think he was referring to his personal experience. If you don't mind, I'm going to ask Mr. Genuis to continue with his remarks while sticking as closely as possible to the substance of his motion.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the great work.

Respectfully, to the member who raised the objection, what I think I'm very clearly talking about is what is before us, the choice that is embodied in the motion that I put forward, and that choice is the question of whether we should consider this motion to have the foreign affairs committee of Canada study abortion along with various other parliamentary committees, or whether we should complete the work that needs to be done on the issue of Ukraine.

There have been various interruptions, and I want to just make a few comments on an issue that I know is very important with respect to Ukraine and speaks to the urgency of the study we have to do on Ukraine, which is the issue of food security.

3:45 p.m.

Bloc

The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron

Mr. Oliphant has a point of order.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

We may need clarification from the clerk on this, but does the motion as presented and then amended have a date on it that requires the study to happen before the Ukraine study? I'm now unclear.

Mr. Genuis is very clear in his argument that there is a date that supersedes the Ukraine study, but is that in the motion? I'm having a—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

On—

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

I have the floor right now for a point of order, Mr. Genuis. You're very aware of that.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

That's not a point of order.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

I'm misunderstanding the motion, I think, so I may need clarification from the clerk as to whether indeed it has a date that requires a suspension of our current study to take us to the next study.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

This seems like a point of debate, Mr. Chair.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron

Madam Clerk, can you shed light on Mr. Oliphant's question about the motion?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, if I may, the member has a factual question.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

There's a point of order on the floor and the chair hasn't ruled on it, Mr. Genuis.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

I'd like to speak to the same point of order, Mr. Chair.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron

If you don't mind, Mr. Genuis, I'm going to ask the clerk for some clarification, and then, you can have the floor to speak to the same point of order.

3:50 p.m.

The Clerk

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The motion as it's currently formulated does not have any dates listed in it.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

That helps me understand a little better. Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron

Thank you.

Mr. Genuis, you wanted to comment on the same point of order.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Chair, as I think you'll find, the idea that this was raised as a matter of order and not as a matter of debate is a bit farcical. The member wished to make a point in response to a point I was making. I'm happy for him to make it at the appropriate time by getting on the speakers list, and I'll respond to his point momentarily, but to suggest that seeking clarification about the text of the motion we're debating is somehow a question of order as opposed to a question of debate is, frankly, beneath the member.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron

Go ahead, Ms. Fry.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Hedy Fry Liberal Vancouver Centre, BC

On point of order, Mr. Chair, is Mr. Genuis challenging the chair on accepting Mr. Oliphant's point of order, which was a question of clarification for the clerk?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

No, I'm not.