Evidence of meeting #23 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was russia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Marty Morantz
Thank you, Mr. Sorbara.
I understand that the next round is mine, so I will pass the chair to our second vice-chair.
Mr. Bergeron, do you accept the chair?
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Stéphane Bergeron
Yes, of course, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Morantz, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.
Minister Wilkinson, you keep asking what the Conservatives would have done. I'll tell you what the Conservatives would not have done. They wouldn't have done everything in their power over the last seven years to absolutely kill the oil and gas industry in Canada so that despots like Vladimir Putin could hold the European Union for ransom under circumstances like this.
Particularly since 2014, it should have been clear to your government that we should have been expanding our oil and gas exportation capacity. Canada has the most ethical energy industry in the world, yet we can't help the European Union, can we, because we're not in a position to export LNG to the European Union?
You weren't in a position to offer that. Isn't that right, Minister?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
I think it's important that we look at the facts. If you look at the production levels of the oil and gas industry in Canada, they have gone up significantly over the last number of years. As you know, LNG Canada is in the process of being constructed, so is the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. There's been significant work to expand the role that Canadian oil and gas actually plays in the context of the world economy. But it's also important to remember that climate change is real; it's not going away. It is an existential threat to the future of the human race, and we need to ensure that we're addressing both of those together.
We are doing exactly that through the emissions reduction work we're doing with the oil and gas sector. I would say we've been doing exactly what it is Canadians should expect their government to be doing.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
You're not answering the question: Wouldn't it be better to be able to supplant despotic oil like Vladimir Putin's oil with ethically produced Canadian gas? Basically your government—
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Are you asking about oil or are you asking about gas?
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
I'm sorry. Thank you for the clarification. In this case we're talking about natural gas.
We could have been in a position to supply natural gas to Germany, but we're not. If your government had taken that seriously after 2014, we would be in a position.... That's what the Conservatives would have done. The Conservatives wouldn't do what you're implying, to let Germans freeze.
The other piece of this is this—
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
No, it was just a statement.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
The executives at Gazprom basically came out and said—Mr. Markelov I believe said—it's not really about getting the turbine back, but about sanctions.
Chancellor Scholz has himself said that we're calling Putin's bluff. No one really ever thought this was about increasing gas supply for Germany, so it's not fair of you to imply that Conservatives would let Germans freeze in the cold. Who is letting Germans freeze in the cold? It's your government for failing to expand our export capacity for LNG.
Did you have any discussions with the German government about supplying them with Canadian LNG before you authorized the release of the turbines?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
We've been having conversations for a significant time, not only with the Germans but with the European Union as well, about how Canada can assist with energy requirements going forward. That could include liquid natural gas if it can fit within the time frame when they are looking to make the transition. It also certainly involves hydrogen, and there are many active proposals that are going on with respect to hydrogen.
Yes, we have active working groups with both the European Union and Germany.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
How long will it take before we are in a position to provide Canadian LNG to the European Union?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
That is partly up to the government, and it's partly up to the proponents.
The proponents that are looking at the various facilities on the east coast have not yet come to the point where they've made some kind of an FIE, a final investment decision.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Do you think you feel strongly—
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
We are working actively with them to try to help them navigate through what may be regulatory issues. We are also working with them to partner with the Germans and the Europeans—
Conservative
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Also, the private sector needs to bring capital to the table to ensure that they can put it work.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
This is the last question, and then I'll pass the mike.
Do you think that, if you had started in 2014 after Mr. Putin made his intentions clear by invading and taking over Crimea, you would be in a position today to solve this problem for Germany and not have to send turbines to Mr. Putin so he can make more money to fund his war effort?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
No.
Mr. Morantz, you have to look at some of the fundamental economics. Russian gas was always going to be cheaper. Up until the Ukrainian invasion, it was an issue of Germany looking for the cheapest source of gas. Canada's competitive advantage with respect to gas is very much on the west coast, where there is a much shorter amount of transmission transport required. That is why LNG Canada has been moving forward over the last number of years. That is why wood fibre has moved forward.
Certainly energy security issues have changed the dynamic, and it's not just about cheap Russian oil and gas anymore. That is exactly what is motivating some of the interests on the east coast to look at opportunities in Germany.
Conservative
Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
I put it to you that it's your government's failed energy policies that will—
Liberal
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Prior to this, Morantz and Wilkinson argue over each other, and it's impossible to make out what they are saying. I'd be happy to move forward on the subject of economics.
