Foreign Affairs Committee on Sept. 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Sidhu.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

It's my understanding that the minister would be coming to speak, yes, on the turbines but just on Ukraine as a subject.

[A voice]

That's the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is there unanimous consent to adopt this subamendment?

(Subamendment agreed to)

(Amendment as amended agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

Now, having dealt with that motion, we now go to Mr. Zuberi on the general list.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to move a motion. It has been submitted. I believe all committee members have it in both languages. It's concerning Pakistan and the flooding situation. As I'm sure everyone in this room is aware, one-third of the country is currently under water and 33 million people are impacted. That's an enormous amount when we think about the size of Canada and the number of people who are here.

Thankfully, our government has already done a lot when it comes to supporting the people of Pakistan. We know that Minister Sajjan was there for five days, along with a small delegation of MPs. We know that $25 million in humanitarian assistance was given immediately, along with $3 million in matching funds and $20 million to fight polio, which is a water-borne disease.

It is completely appropriate that we at this committee study this issue. Therefore, I'd like to put forth the motion, read it into the record and have a vote on it. The motion is:

That the committee hold at least one meeting on the extreme flooding in Pakistan and what support is needed by the Pakistani people during this time of need; and that witnesses include officials from Global Affairs Canada, civil society organizations providing aid on the ground, and other relevant experts.

I was there in July on a personal trip and went up north. Before the floods were really in full force, I saw the impacts of the monsoon rains, with roadways covered and bridges felled. This was before what we know now in terms of the immense flooding. I'm putting this out there and hoping that we can get broad support on it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Zuberi.

I now go to Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think this is an important topic to discuss.

I want to note in the description of the general issues certainly one of the concerns that we have raised. We support providing emergency humanitarian assistance to the people of Pakistan, but we are concerned about the mechanism for the matching funding program. Repeatedly, we see with this government that matching programs have been put in place that only match contributions to a limited number of organizations. That has the effect of excluding many smaller local organizations that may have a significant presence on the ground and making it harder for them to fundraise.

We've supported providing emergency humanitarian assistance. We've also called on the government to address these problems and inequities in matching programs. We've been consistent in raising this in the context of Ukraine, in the context of Lebanon and in other situations. I think it's an important issue to study, and we'll certainly want to raise some of those questions and hear from stakeholders about the matching program.

I want to propose an amendment that stems from my belief that if we're going to do something, we should do it well, and we should have enough energy to do it. Therefore, I'm proposing the following amendment. Where it says “one”, strike “one” and replace it with “three” and add an “s” at the end of “meeting”. It would say, “That the committee hold at least three meetings”, and then, further on down, “that witnesses include Minister Sajjan, officials from Global Affairs”, etc., and adding at the end “and that the committee report to the House on its findings”.

The full revised motion would read, “That the committee hold at least three meetings on the extreme flooding in Pakistan and what support is needed by the Pakistani people during this time of need; that witnesses include Minister Sajjan, officials from Global Affairs Canada, civil society organizations providing aid on the ground, and other relevant experts; and that the committee report to the House on its findings.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

I understand that Ms. McPherson is next.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I was just double-checking that my name was on the general list, not on this particular motion, but just the general list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

It is on the general list.

Now we go to Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'm very partial to Mr. Genuis's suggested amendments. I'd just like to put on the record that personally I'm in favour of them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Do we have unanimous consent for the amended motion?

We have Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'm very reluctant to speak out, but I believe I have no choice but to do so.

I made a comment a few minutes ago asking that we focus on the key issues. Mr. Zuberi is proposing that we have one meeting and Mr. Genuis's proposal would bring the number of additional meetings to three.

I don't have a problem with that, but we have to be aware that this committee has an extremely limited number of meetings. We can keep on adding meetings at our leisure like that, but we must bear in mind that certain topics, whether it's the situation in Armenia, Haiti or Ukraine, are going to be left out.

I'm very sensitive to the tragedy that the Pakistani people are facing, and I certainly don't want to sound like I'm saying that it should be minimized and given as little importance as possible. However, I do want people to be aware that we can only have a limited number of meetings, and therefore, when you add meetings with each motion, like they tried to do just now on the turbine issue, at the end of the day, issues of importance are going to have to be overlooked.

I know Mr. Zuberi is delighted to see a colleague suggest that we add two meetings, but Mr. Zuberi originally proposed only one, so I would move that we stick to one meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Go ahead, Mr. Genuis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate what I know are very sincere intentions on the part of Mr. Bergeron. I just think that if you read the motion, it seeks meetings with officials, civil society organizations and relevant experts. That doesn't sound like it's possible in one meeting. You could maybe squeeze in officials, one civil society organization and one relevant expert. It seems to me that if we're going to do a study, we should do a study.

I think the committee would also have some facility to schedule extra meetings. If we have extra meetings and we have people who have a particular interest in this issue subbing in for that, we can find accommodations. However, one meeting isn't a study. This is a serious humanitarian crisis. If we're going to study it, we should study it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We'll go back to Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to note, as I said at the top, that Canada has invested thus far nearly $50 million in this. That is a significant amount. It's worth studying the impacts of our funding.

We know that the situation is not over. We know that there are still other parts to this piece. I would suggest, as Mr. Genuis said, that if we have a number of different sectors we want to hear from, we should give the study its due. This is for two reasons. The first is the different sectors we want to hear from. The second is the amount of money that we are contributing as a government. A third, I would say, is the magnitude of this issue and the consciousness within Canadian society on this issue, which is vast and large.

This deserves the time to give it a look.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Go ahead, Mr. Sidhu.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to add my voice to this.

In Brampton, we have a large Pakistani community that has reached out. It wants to know what more the government is doing. We've done a lot, as my colleague Mr. Zuberi said, but I think it's well intentioned to hear from witnesses and experts who are providing assistance on the ground.

I'm not sure if we can meet in the middle with what Mr. Bergeron, Mr. Zuberi and Garnett proposed. Maybe instead of three, we can have two meetings, so that we can hear from the necessary witnesses. I want to put that out there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That was exactly what I was going to suggest. Why don't we find a happy compromise and go with two?

I'm noting down—very roughly, of course—that we only have about 20 meetings before the fall session is over. Realistically, the math is something we need to look at.

Particularly, I think it's important to recognize that we have not finished some of the work from the last session. We have still not finished our vaccine equity study. We have still not finished some of the studies that were brought forward at that point.

When we look at things brought forward by Ms. Bendayan, Mr. Genuis, Mr. Bergeron and Mr. Zuberi, it's relevant to consider the time. Two meetings would be appropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is that a subamendment, Ms. McPherson?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

It was. I have that written down too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Is there unanimous consent?

(Subamendment agreed to)

Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron, for pointing out that time is limited.

It's great to see that there is a spirit of compromise amongst the members.

We go back to the general list and to Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, Ms. McPherson just raised an important point.

Before our work was unexpectedly interrupted by procedural matters—let's put it that way—we had begun our study on Ukraine and the study on vaccine equity. As I was saying a few moments ago, we had a briefing on the situation in Haiti, which has deteriorated significantly, as I pointed out, and which would minimally require us to hear again from Global Affairs Canada on the status of the situation.

Mr. Chair, I am always concerned when Canadian missions abroad are among the first to close when political crises or natural disasters occur. I understand the desire to ensure the safety of staff, but all Canadian nationals are being left unprotected and must often turn to other foreign missions. We could discuss the fact that President Zelenski was able to visit the British embassy to sign the book of condolences when her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II died, while the Canadian embassy in Kyiv remains closed.

The decision to close the embassy in Port-au-Prince worries me. I understand there are certainly safety issues that explain the decision, but my understanding is that not all foreign missions have been cancelled. It's almost a natural reflex at Global Affairs Canada to rush to close missions when a political crisis or natural disaster occurs.

I remember the early days of the pandemic, when all the missions in Spain were closed, leaving hundreds of Canadian nationals stranded, having to call the Department of Foreign Affairs hotline, which was flooded with calls. We had excellent discussions with the then Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Champagne, who reopened the Canadian missions in Spain.

I am concerned about the fact that the embassy in Port-au-Prince has been closed, and I think we need to hear from the department's representatives, so that they can explain to us, among other things, why this decision was made and what the situation is on the ground. It is very difficult for us to understand the situation from the bits of information we can get from the media, but one thing is certain: a social crisis has hit that country again, which has been hard-hit for many years.

Mr. Zuberi and Mr. Sidhu were highlighting the importance of the Pakistani community in Canada. I cannot stress enough the importance of the Haitian community in Quebec and in Canada and the fact that they expect us to give our brothers and sisters in Haiti all the support they deserve, especially since we have not been particularly helpful. This was evident during the pandemic, when I had an opportunity to raise this issue a few times when countries like Haiti needed support for vaccination rollout on their territory.

A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since we heard from Global Affairs Canada. We need to hear from their representatives again on this issue, Mr. Chair, and I reiterate that we still need to hear from the Canadian ambassador to the United Nations.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.