Foreign Affairs Committee on Sept. 28th, 2022

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You would acknowledge that the Canadian position, at least with respect to who is responsible for triggering the current round of conflict, is different from the U.S. and the French position. The U.S. and the French are saying this was triggered by the Azeri side, and the Canadian position seems to be “We don't know.”

[Andrew Turner]

In terms of the specifics of who shot first, we are not in a position to make a clear determination. However, we are clearly concerned by the fact that Azerbaijan launched attacks into Armenian territory.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Is it fair to say you that would typically believe the U.S. and the French assessment is correct, or do you have any reason to doubt their assessment?

[Andrew Turner]

No, we do not have any reason to doubt the assessment of our allies.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay.

Is that my time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Genuis.

Now we go to Mr. Zuberi. You have five minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here.

I'd like to start off with a question about Armenia and its relationship with Russia.

Armenia hosts a Russian base and is also part of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, which is basically a pact that's similar to NATO. It's among Russia, Armenia and other countries, and it says that when one of them is attacked, it's as if all of them are attacked.

Can you talk about the way in which Russia is or isn't committed to Armenia's sovereignty vis-à-vis the military base and this pact?

[Andrew Turner]

The Collective Security Treaty Organization is a military alliance of which Armenia is a part, along with Russia. Russia has long maintained a military presence in Armenia. We now have the peacekeeping mission in Nagorno-Karabakh as a result of the 2020 ceasefire.

In response to the latest outbreak of fighting, Armenia requested support from the Collective Security Treaty Organization, and they have sent out a mission looking into the situation. This is certainly an indication of Russia's continued efforts to play a leading role throughout the region. However, we've seen that Armenia has in recent years taken very significant steps to reform, to promote democracy and to develop its own policies, which we are seeing in important areas, including Armenia's consistent refusal to endorse several of Russia's positions with regard to Ukraine.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

Shifting gears for a moment to Turkish troops, have there been any Turkish troops deployed as peacekeepers in addition to the 2,000 Russian troops that are presently there, from what I understand? If so, where are they located vis-à-vis the Russian troops?

[Andrew Turner]

My colleague is better placed to discuss the specifics, although I believe she is currently having some technical issues.

What I would say is that yes, as part of the agreement, Turkey has deployed a small number of troops. They're not a part of the peacekeeping mission, but they are more a part of a central operations centre that can help observe the operation as a whole. It is not a peacekeeping mission in the same way that the Russian one is, and it's on a much smaller scale.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

With respect to the trilateral ceasefire in the region that was signed in 2020 between Armenia, Azerbaijan and Russia, was there any mention of Azerbaijani access to the exclave that is part of Azerbaijan? Was there any mention of that?

[Andrew Turner]

Yes. One of the provisions is to ensure access, just as there was likewise a set schedule for the transfer of some territory. This is one of the issues that continues to be discussed between the two parties and that needs to be resolved before there is a final and permanent resolution to the conflict. This is one of the areas that continues to be under discussion at present.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

There is some access from Turkey to the Nakhchivan exclave of Azerbaijan. Can you talk a bit about the importance of that access or the significance of it? How does that play into the region and in what's happening right now?

[Andrew Turner]

I don't think the Turkish access is significant in terms of the discussions around the corridor and linking it to the rest of Azerbaijan. The discussions between Armenia and Azerbaijan are much more focused.

I would say what it is more significant for is an indication that because of the geography of the south Caucasus region and the complicated relationships between the different countries involved, it is one of the examples of how reaching a permanent peace agreement, as well as the normalization between Turkey and Armenia, would stand to benefit the region greatly by allowing for much greater regional economic integration than is currently possible because of the political situation.

I think I would look at it more in that context, but that specifically has not been as much of a focus as the issue of getting Nakhchivan access to the main part of Azerbaijan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Turner.

We'll go back to you, Mr. Bergeron. You have two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The academic Thomas de Waal wrote in a Carnegie Europe article that Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev was using a strategy of coercive diplomacy against Armenia, a mixture of negotiation and force.

What is your reaction to this statement about President Aliyev's approach to Armenia?

[Andrew Turner]

In all of our bilateral discussions with countries, particularly Azerbaijan, we make it very clear that Canada wants to see diplomatic resolutions. The country's representatives tell us that this is their desire as well, and we continue to see a great deal of effort on their part to engage in diplomacy. As for the examples of rhetoric and negative pressure from Azerbaijan, which are numerous, this is always a concern and we always indicate that it is not helpful. This is one of the reasons why we continue to make our position clear and to monitor the situation very closely to avoid a return to conflict.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Assuming that it was Azerbaijan, as the Americans and the French claim, that launched this latest assault, which was aimed at Armenian territory, this time, does that fit your definition of the alleged willingness of both countries to reach a diplomatic solution?

Doesn't this, on the contrary, support Professor Thomas de Waal's definition of Azerbaijan's attitude towards Armenia?

[Andrew Turner]

This is another indication of the difficulties caused by the confusion and vagueness surrounding this situation, when the two countries do not agree on the demarcation of the border region. This leads to situations where one thinks the other is launching an assault when it is not. That is why we continue to emphasize at every opportunity the importance of resuming diplomatic exchanges to resolve the problem. That is also why, as the minister said, this attack, this time targeting the territory of Armenia, was particularly worrying.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

It's also good to see Ms. Grant back. We're terribly sorry for the technical challenges you've been facing—

[Alison Grant]

My apologies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

—but thank you for returning.

We now go to Ms. McPherson.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thought you were saying you were happy to have me back. Unfortunately, that wasn't—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!