Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2022

[Heidi Hulan]

We are focused on the dual track of diplomacy, dialogue and deterrence. The credible threat of sanctions well organized in advance amongst significant economies forms a significant part of that deterrence package.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Thank you, Mr. Aboultaif.

Ms. Bendayan, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Hulan, you mentioned earlier in your testimony widespread Russian disinformation and Russian propaganda. Unfortunately, that propaganda is leaking into Canada as well. I've even seen it on the social media of some of our opposition colleagues.

What are we seeing as the main vehicles of Russian disinformation in Ukraine but also outside the Ukraine?

Perhaps I could invite you, given that the chair has given me only two and a half minutes, to provide that answer in writing, Ms. Hulan.

[Heidi Hulan]

I'd like to invite Sandra McCardell to give a first response and, if necessary, we can follow up in writing.

[Sandra McCardell]

Mr. Chair, certainly Russia's campaign of disinformation and propaganda is well known and well developed. We've certainly seen it active in Ukraine, and we see it active in neighbouring countries.

As you'll note from the announcement of just a few days ago, Canada intends to support Ukraine on cybersecurity and cyber-operations. I think that will be a very effective way to help us to address, in this very vulnerable country, Russia's campaign to destabilize.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to ask a second question, if I have enough time left.

Earlier in the meeting, my very kind colleague, Mr. Bergeron, seemed to downplay the Russian threat to Ukraine by stating that the Ukrainian government itself said that it didn't believe that an invasion was imminent.

My question arising from this is that from a lay perspective, if Ukraine were to announce that an invasion was imminent in their view, it would cause widespread panic.

In your expert view, what would be the impacts on the Ukrainian economy and, in particular, their financial system should the Ukrainian government announce to its population that an invasion was imminent?

[Heidi Hulan]

Mr. Chair, I'll turn to my colleague Sandra McCardell to respond to that, but I'll note that—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

You have 30 seconds.

[Heidi Hulan]

I'll turn to my colleague Sandra McCardell to respond.

[Sandra McCardell]

As my colleague was about to say, when Minister Joly visited Ukraine, even the threat of instability was already having a significant impact on the economy. Obviously, an invasion will have all kinds of grave consequences.

That's in part why we've already announced an offer of a sovereign loan to Ukraine of $120 million to help shore up Ukraine. Among the allies that we've mentioned, there's a great concern and understanding of the importance of providing Ukraine with economic support during a difficult time. We'll continue to have those discussions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Thank you.

Next is Mr. Bergeron.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to say to my colleague, Ms. Bendayan, that when the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom cry wolf as they're doing now, it has exactly the same impact on the Ukrainian economy. That's probably one reason why Ukraine is asking us to tone it down a bit and take a more conciliatory approach. We must avoid going overboard, because it significantly affects the Ukrainian people.

The same is true of the decision to remove non‑essential personnel from the embassy. Only a very small number of countries have done so, namely, the United States and the United Kingdom, again, as well as Australia and Canada. The other allies are staying put to show their support for Ukraine by their presence.

I want to address the question asked by my colleague, Michael Chong, about Ukraine's membership in NATO. When she went to Kyiv, the Minister of Foreign Affairs said that we were still in favour of it, of course, but that further improvements were needed in terms of democracy. I'd like some clarification on that. I must say that the Atlantic Alliance countries involved seem to have different expectations, to the point that Ukraine feels that the deadline is being pushed back indefinitely. The Ukrainian Prime Minister has expressed some impatience about this.

Is there a real plan to admit Ukraine to NATO, or is the goal to postpone its membership indefinitely to avoid having to deal with the Russian threat?

[Heidi Hulan]

Mr. Chair, I know time is tight, so I want to be extremely clear.

Canada strongly supports Ukraine's Euro-Atlantic aspirations. In order to become a member of NATO, you need to meet certain standards set forth by NATO, and Ukraine has been working along that path. They have sought our assistance and co-operation in doing so, and it has been our pleasure to be involved with them.

That is the purpose of much of our engagement in that country.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.

Ms. McPherson, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This will be my last intervention tonight, so I want to focus on the Canadians who are in Ukraine at the moment. I'd like to know what is being done to ensure the safety of Canadian citizens in Ukraine, in particular, if the situation changes. If the situation on the ground changes quite rapidly, what measures have been put in place to make sure that Canadian citizens in Ukraine are safe?

[Heidi Hulan]

My colleague Julie Sunday will answer that question.

[Julie Sunday, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, we recently elevated our global travel advisory to the highest level to inform Canadians to avoid all travel to Ukraine. We are urging Canadians to leave due to ongoing Russian threats and the risk of armed conflict. A really critical element of our planning is having them depart while commercial options are still available. At the moment there are numerous commercial flight options and also numerous road and rail departure options.

That said, if conditions were to deteriorate rapidly, we are also looking at possible assisted departure options where the primary route out of Ukraine would be to Poland. We are undertaking significant work with our embassy in Warsaw to ensure there will be support for Canadians at border checkpoints, and to facilitate onward travel.

We're very focused on ensuring Canadians are able to depart safely from Ukraine.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Knowing that people in the embassy have had to leave Ukraine and have already left, has that impacted our ability to notice things on the ground? Also, what has the impact been on Ukraine? How did they feel about that withdrawal?

[Julie Sunday]

Mr. Chair, the honourable member is correct. In January we did approve the departure of diplomatic dependants and non-essential employees. That said, we have also added some consular security and emergency operations staff to the mission to be able to bolster our capacity to provide services to Canadians in those key areas. Our mission in Kyiv is fully open and operational and providing all of that consular support right now.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Unfortunately, I have a very short time. Sorry about that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Marty Morantz]

We have Mr. Chong for two and a half minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to focus on what hard-power tools we have to counter Russia's threats to eastern Europe. We've talked about lethal defensive weapons for Ukraine. I'd like to talk about energy.

Russia's military is not the only tool of hard power it has to intimidate Europe and Ukraine. It can cut off natural gas supplies to Europe. Russia supplies 40% of Europe's gas. In the last week there have been numerous reports that the Biden administration has been talking to numerous countries in Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia about stepping up natural gas production to Europe in the event of a Russian invasion of Ukraine. Some of these reports have indicated that the government, the Biden administration, has been talking to countries like Norway and Qatar, for example. Canada has not been mentioned in these reports.

Is the government part of any discussions with the Biden administration about providing additional natural gas in the event Russia cuts supplies to Europe?

[Heidi Hulan]

Sandra McCardell.