Foreign Affairs Committee on Oct. 31st, 2022

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Let me answer your question now.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Please.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

First of all, I haven't seen that report. Now that I've been made aware of it, I'll have to talk to my team to see if they've seen it and take a look at it.

One thing I can commit to when it comes to human rights violations—something that we not only take seriously but take a very aggressive approach on—is that we will work with organizations to support the most vulnerable. We'll do this all over the world.

We'll help improve the United Nations assistance. We'll help improve any other organizations that are out there. One thing is clear: When it comes to the funding we do provide, we want to support the most vulnerable and we want to make sure it's done in a transparent way.

This is one reason we actually have very strict conditions when we look at providing money, so when something is done we can actually learn about it and take further action on it.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I'm sorry you haven't seen the report. I'd welcome a follow-up on that. If we're giving money to organizations that are procuring from sanctioned individuals and entities, that clearly is not good for people. That clearly is not advancing the values we're supposed to be standing for.

It's relevant in Pakistan. It's relevant anywhere we operate. How are we making sure, if we're giving money to UN-affiliated organizations that have this kind of track record in Syria, that they're not procuring from sanctioned individuals or from individuals who are involved in human rights abuses? That's really important and really relevant to the conversation we're having.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

It is. Absolutely, it is.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I hope you would take a firm line on that.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

In fact, I not only do, but I can also show you great examples. When you visit the Kakuma refugee camp in Kenya or many other places, and the World Food Programme and many other organizations, they are working to save many lives. When it comes to the work, absolutely we need to do it, and we need to deal with any issues that come up.

Thanks for identifying that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

The last slot goes to Mr. Oliphant.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you again for being here.

I want to stick to Pakistan and the emergency crisis at hand, and the over 30 million people who have been affected by this, and perhaps a whole country, frankly, not just the 30 million. We have up to 100 million people who are really affected by this. I think that is critical for this committee to deal with at this time. I think that is also what people in our ridings want us to deal with.

How do we get our information on the ground? It's a fluid situation—I don't mean a pun—a difficult situation that is constantly changing. Is our high commission able to handle this? Do we have outside sources? How do we get on-the-ground information, which is constantly changing, in difficult areas to reach?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'm glad you raised that.

When it comes to difficult areas, this is one of the reasons.... We have those long-standing relationships with many organizations that work in different areas, for example, the Humanitarian Coalition. In my first briefing with them, they talked about how, with the earthquake in Pakistan that took place in remote areas, they had the ability and the connection within those communities—the Islamic Relief coalition—to be able to get that information.

We have many links through our long-term partners, but also working directly with the Pakistani government, the national command centre, which our folks are directly connected with. There are multiple different sources that can get that information.

Pakistan set up a good system, which we saw from the national and provincial levels, right down to the municipal level. The information does get fed and decisions are appropriately made. This is where our high commission folks are directly tapped into.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

That's very good.

Is there anything you want to leave with the committee that we have not had a chance to ask you about?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

There is one thing, Mr. Chair.

When it comes to this portfolio, I think we can all agree that we want to support the most vulnerable. Again, I want to take this opportunity to thank the committee for raising this.

We heard about the Pakistani floods, but it did not get the attention it deserved. I've been to a lot of conflict areas, a lot of floods, in areas in Canada and other places, even in South Sudan. This was atrocious.

Imagine taking one of our provinces and one-third of it is under water. There are a lot of things that are going on, horrible things going on in the world, and we need to support all of that. We have to make sure we're there for the most vulnerable.

I also want to say thanks for some of the work that was done in the past. I don't know how many times someone has come up to me to say that the work that was done from the previous flood saved a lot of lives. By working together, we're able to continue that work for people. Thank you again for this opportunity.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Honourable Minister. Thank you, Deputy Minister MacLennan, Mr. Gibbins, Ms. Carney and Ms. Do. We're very grateful for your testimony and for making yourselves available to the committee.

We will suspend briefly before we proceed with the study on Haiti.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Welcome back, everyone.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and the motions adopted by the committee on Monday, January 31, 2022, and Wednesday, October 19, 2022, the committee resumes its study of the current situation in Haiti.

It is now my pleasure to welcome, from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, Mr. Sébastien Carrière, Ambassador of Canada to Haiti; as well as Mr. Sébastien Sigouin, executive director, Haiti.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses who just joined us by video conference.

Please click on the microphone to activate your mike, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. Interpretation is at the bottom of your screen. The three options consist of the floor, English or French. Those in the room can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

You will be given five minutes for your remarks, after which we will proceed to a round of questions. I will signal you when you only have one minute remaining.

Now, Mr. Ambassador, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Sébastien Carrière, Ambassador of Canada to Haiti, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am going to try to keep my opening remarks as brief as possible, to encourage discussion.

Haiti has had chronic political problems for many years. The situation was exacerbated by the assassination of President Moïse in July 2021, which created a constitutional and institutional vacuum that led to the current security, humanitarian and political crisis.

More recently, gangs supported by a certain segment of the Haitian elite have extended their territorial control over the country. They now occupy the port of Varreux, the country's main oil terminal, blocking the distribution of fuel in the country, most importantly, and preventing hospitals from operating normally and responding to the resurgence of cholera, among other things.

We need only look at some data to understand the extent of the ongoing crisis in Haiti. First, 4.7 million people are facing acute hunger, and over 113,000 people have been displaced within the country. The latest figures on cholera show that there have now been 52 deaths and almost 3,000 suspected or confirmed cases. The age category most affected by cholera is children aged nine and under.

On October 9, 2022, faced with this crisis, the Prime Minister, Ariel Henry, wrote to Canada, the United States and the Secretary General of the United Nations to request military aid to secure the country's critical infrastructure and reopen road access between the capital and the rest of the country. In the days that followed, the Secretary General of the United Nations proposed the deployment of a rapid intervention force to the United Nations Security Council.

Canada has played a leadership role in Haiti for decades. We have invested close to $2 billion since 2010, including significant investments to strengthen security in Haiti. Canada's leadership is not only about our investments or foreign aid; it is also about the sustained engagement of our Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs in mobilizing international partners, as you will have seen with the various high-level events and engagements chaired by Canada over the last few months. The international community seems clearly committed to support Haitian authorities' efforts to restore order, allow the flow of fuel and goods and ensure that critical humanitarian assistance is provided to the population.

To ensure that we make the right decisions, the Government of Canada established an interdepartmental mission and has been consulting with Haitian stakeholders, regional partners, the UN, CARICOM and others to assess options for the international response and the role Canada could play in finding a solution. The mission has just returned from Haiti and will be discussing its findings with partners to identify a path forward for the international community.

As Ms. Joly stated on Sunday morning, yesterday, on Les coulisses du pouvoir, impunity is not imaginable. The Government of Canada is now thinking of imposing sanctions and taking other measures against the people who support the armed gangs and arms trafficking in Haiti, including any who might be residing in Canada. The sanctions follow on the sanctions resolution that was adopted by the United Nations Security Council ten days ago.

Canada is in well placed to work with its key allies to support the efforts of the Haitian authorities, to find a solution to the humanitarian and security crisis and, in the longer term, to establish an inclusive dialogue that would lead to free and democratic elections.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador.

We now open the floor to questions. The first slot goes to Mr. Epp.

Mr. Epp, you have six minutes.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ambassador, for your testimony.

Whenever I think of the island that Haiti is situated on, I'm reminded of the importance of governance in the differential outcomes for people: for the Haitians and for those on the other end of the island.

Governance is important, so I want to start there, Mr. Ambassador. You mentioned Canada's long-term leadership position in Haiti. Canada and the U.S. are the number one and number two donors to that country internationally. What are the international expectations of Canada in this crisis?

[Sébastien Carrière]

Thank you for the question.

The expectations are fairly high, I would say. I think we all saw the media coverage of the visit by Secretary Blinken to Ottawa and some of the articles before and during the visit. Indeed, people expect Canada to take on a leadership role.

We have a very good reputation in Haiti. We're well respected. People come to us seeking our advice and our views on what they could do. It's important to leverage that in favour of a good resolution to this current crisis for Haiti, but also, I think this has to be a group effort. No one country can swoop in here and solve problems that have been going on since the fall of the dictatorship, and, some would argue, even before. I think it's important to be modest and to consult and that this be a group effort.

One of the things we did two weeks ago, I think it was, was that the Prime Minister had a call with CARICOM leaders. It was a leader-level call, I believe, to seek the views of countries in the neighbourhood. You mentioned the Dominican Republic. The Dominican Republic was on that call as a member of CARICOM. It was to see how we can leverage the regional alliances in the Caribbean towards helping Haiti.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Ambassador.

I hear you saying two things. Can I ask you to be a little more specific? What is Canada's position on the potential United Nations resolution versus the initiative being floated by the United States and Mexico?

[Sébastien Carrière]

Yes, there are two resolutions. One has been adopted. That one is the sanctions resolution. We're 100% behind that. We worked really hard behind the scenes to make that happen, and we're glad it did.

Then there's another resolution that's on the table this week, I believe, in New York, about a force resolution, and no decision has been made on that. That was part of what the assessment team came here to do last week. They're continuing their consultations this week. They're briefing up in terms of what their findings are. The discussions continue in New York.

It's very much a fast-moving file, so we'll see what today, tomorrow and the next couple of days bring.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Sir, you referenced sanctions. Who are those sanctions targeting?

[Sébastien Carrière]

There's one individual who was actually named by the resolution, Jimmy Cherizier, a former police lieutenant. He's known as “Barbecue”. That's his gang name. He was specifically named by the UN Security Council. That doesn't really help, because this man is a criminal, of course, and lives in the cash economy and doesn't have holdings outside of Haiti. I think it was the symbol that was important. That's why he was included.

What we really want to get at is sanctioning gang leaders, yes, but also the people who facilitate and finance their work. It's a well-known fact in Haiti that sometimes there are demonstrations that are real demonstrations, where people come out and express their disagreement with the government or with the policies, but there are also demonstrations that are bought and paid for and that aim to destabilize the country because somebody doesn't like one decision or another. It's that we're trying to sort out.

There are links between the political level and the gangs, and there are links between the political, the gangs and some members of the economic elite—not all of them, but some—so those are the people we're trying to get at in sort of breaking the quote-unquote system.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, sir.

Following the meetings with Secretary Blinken last week, it was reported that our foreign minister made the statement that Canada wanted to get it “right”.

You mentioned that our assessment teams are just back from Haiti. Addressing wanting to get it right, my understanding is that Canada did support and did back the previous administration after the assassination of President Moïse and did support Ariel Henry. Am I correct in that? If so, does that mean that Canada didn't get it right, because of the allegations of the association of that regime—or this regime—with gang activity?

[Sébastien Carrière]

There are a lot of allegations out there. I think those need to be looked at carefully and be evaluated. I think you're correct that the Government of Canada, along with a group of other countries, supported Ariel Henry last summer. I would just say that the sitting president, Jovenel Moïse named him. Then of course he was assassinated a couple of days after that. What Canada has been promoting for over a year now is an inclusive political dialogue that leaves no one behind and in which everyone can agree on a transitional government that can take the country back to an election and democracy.

Unfortunately—