Evidence of meeting #44 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artsakh.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
Thank you.
I'll pass it to my colleague Mr. Dalton.
Conservative
Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC
Thank you to the witnesses for their presentations.
I'm wondering if both of you, if you have the chance, could make a comment on the impact of the Liberal government's positions and some of the decisions they've made on this whole conflict. I'm thinking of two things specifically. One is the transfer of drone technology to Turkey, which actually impacted the balance of power between Azerbaijan and the enclave. Could you comment on that?
Next, this is more to do with LNG and fossil fuels. There is a reliance here, especially with Russia closing its doors on a lot of its exports to Europe. They need Azerbaijan. Europe is calling, asking Canada to come in with its exports, and we're just kind of waffling on that. I guess my question here is whether, if Canada exported more oil and facilities, that would cause less dependence on Azerbaijan, between Europe and that, and maybe moderate some of the tensions there. Could you comment on that?
I'll leave that to both of you. Thank you.
As an Individual
Thank you, sir.
Referring to the first part of your question, it absolutely was crucial that Canada sent a political and economic signal to Turkey that its involvement, along with terrorists on the side of Azerbaijan, against Artsakh and Armenia was not tolerable. We've seen disruption in that supply, for which we are very grateful, despite the economic troubles. We hope this issue will be considered outside of any sort of partisanship. This should be on the general political agenda, because we know that all political parties in Canada are for peace, for human rights and for democracy. You're strong enough to resist any discrepancies on that end. We certainly see that, and we appreciate it.
Regarding the LNG and the energy source, again, the issue for us is, in principle, to make sure that our lives don't depend on economic interests and don't depend on which country is interested to come for the next decade, or 15 years, or one year. We don't know what will happen in the near future. We want our questions, our rights and our lives to have the same level of international attention and protection as the life of a very ordinary Canadian, an ordinary American or an ordinary person from France and any other country that has been protecting and appreciating human life and human dignity and security.
Yes, you're absolutely right that there are new economic prospects for Azerbaijan. They are now capitalizing on the war in Ukraine and other bilateral and multilateral arrangements. They are temporary, but the damage that is being done to those countries and structures will be much longer. We hope it will not jeopardize our freedom now, our security now and, pretty much, our lives. They can do business, but it should not be an instrument for killing other people.
Thank you.
Liberal
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Chair.
In response to Mr. Dalton's question, I just want to remind the witnesses that, under a Harper Conservative government, no LNG projects were approved for 10 years, and two of the largest—and one of the largest projects ever in Canada, the Kitimat LNG project—has been approved and is being built in—
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
—Canada along with a wood fibre LNG project. Both are export facilities for LNG, and these were done well ahead of unanticipated events out there. I want to remind everyone about what Mr. Avetisyan said: This is a non-partisan effort to resolve this conflict and we should stick to that response.
As for the Armenian government, which is kind of allied militarily with Russia through the Collective Security Treaty Organization, it has expressed its frustration with the inaction of Russian peacekeepers. I think the Prime Minister of Armenia has said the peacekeepers are a “silent witness” to Azerbaijan's efforts to depopulate Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia. On January 10, 2023, it also cancelled, I think, the military shared drills it was supposed to do later in that year.
How has Russia's response to that corridor blockade affected its relationship with Armenia?
That's for Mr. Avetisyan.
As an Individual
Thank you, sir.
I know you will be having Armenia's ambassador, Madam Harutyunyan. You will probably receive a more comprehensive answer from her.
I just want to reiterate that the co-operation is on every possible level. We are especially interested in every possible opportunity, every door of opportunity, to raise questions and engage in a constructive dialogue. Despite this problem—and we kind of covered the main political and organizational difficulties with that—we hope that one of the main roles the peacekeepers will continue to play is with respect to the non-resumption of large-scale hostilities, because Azerbaijan feels the vulnerability of the Armenian side and they try to capitalize on it and to act, under the law of the jungle, to force its political choice.
We do hope the peacekeeping effort now will prevent that from recurring, just as has been happening so far. For the rest, I ask that you address that question to Madam Ambassador. She will be authorized to give you a more comprehensive and correct answer.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Just briefly—and maybe I'll also ask her—do you think the UN Security Council will enact more measures, as they did meet in December 2022? Do you think they will be an effective tool for this as well?
As an Individual
We certainly hope so. We have seen attention by the UN Security Council, and there was a very comprehensive and sobering, I would say, discussion of this issue. Many of the democracies stood for and pretty much defended the right of Artsakhis to have our lives.
There was a discussion, a very heated discussion, predictably with differences in views. We had this one round of discussions. We hope this one will take it several steps further, because we need action. I would love to reiterate to you and to everyone that we need to feel the urgency of the situation. Every day that passes takes a human toll on our people, on regular people.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much.
We now go to Mr. Bergeron.
Mr. Bergeron, you have a minute and a half, sir.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As the discussion has already begun, this should go fairly quickly.
I would like to follow up with Mr. Stepanyan on the discussion we had regarding the alleged 400 Russian trucks that have reputedly crossed the Lachin corridor since the blockade began.
First, did 400 Russian trucks really pass through the corridor?
Do you have any idea what is in those 400 trucks?
January 25th, 2023 / 1:15 p.m.
As an Individual
It seems that I have already answered that question, but I will try to provide more details.
Yes, the Artsakh government also states that the only parties—the only trucks—that are allowed to pass through the Lachin corridor are those of Russian peacekeepers and some Red Cross vehicles.
About the content of the trucks, I can say that a very limited amount of humanitarian aid—mainly medication and some food—was delivered through the Russians and through the Red Cross, but it is not enough to meet the local demand. It doesn't in any way correspond to the local demand.
Also, we should note that the Russians have 2,000 people in Artsakh—in Nagorno-Karabakh—and these trucks are also providing supplies for their contingent.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much.
We now go to Ms. McPherson for the last minute and a half.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
A minute and a half is a very short amount of time to ask questions, so I think I'll take this last bit to offer our witnesses an opportunity to provide some feedback to the committee. Is there anything that we haven't heard from you or anything else you'd like to tell Canadian parliamentarians so that we have a more fulsome grasp of what is happening within the corridor at this time?
Perhaps I could start with you, Mr. Stepanyan.
As an Individual
Thank you very much.
I just want to add that fortunately all influential human rights organizations—namely Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and Freedom House—have raised the alarm about the dire situation in Nagorno-Karabakh, in Artsakh, and are urging the Azerbaijani government to leave the blockade and to guarantee the freedom of movement of goods and people.
I just want you to also get acquainted with statements and reports that have been provided by international human rights organizations in your daily decision-making, especially concerning this issue.
Also, I would like to ask for help to try to have an international fact-finding mission on the ground, which will definitely help me as an ombudsman and human rights defender to collect more facts and present more information to the wider international community.
Thank you.
As an Individual
Thank you very much.
I would like to reiterate our gratitude to you and to everyone who has been on this call. Thank you for the attention.
Please don't feel detached. This question is of utmost importance for tens of thousands of Canadian Armenians, and it should also be on the agenda because Canada is very well known across the world for its championship of human rights, liberties and democracy. Canada is one of the countries that have recognized the Armenian genocides and one of the parties to prevent another genocide.
We invite Canada to play a much more active and comprehensive role in preventing a humanitarian catastrophe in Artsakh and in preventing another manifestation of Armenian genocide, and to use whatever resources possible to ease the humanitarian pains of the local population.
As well, it is one thing to try to bypass the blockade, but we also need your assistance, your effort and your authority around the world and in international organizations to break that blockade. That is the most important thing for us.
Thank you. I know you have a very loaded political agenda. I wish you good luck in your discussions.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
On that note, allow me to thank you, Mr. Avetisyan and Mr. Stepanyan. We're very grateful for your time, your perspectives and your testimony.
We will now adjourn the committee until two o'clock. Thank you.