Evidence of meeting #44 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was artsakh.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Chair, I'm just addressing you.
Mr. Mirakian made a point that there was a diplomat on the ground last week. Could the subcommittee explore that and see if it's possible to either have his report or have him come before the committee?
I'll leave that with you and the subcommittee to look at.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you. That's a good point, Mr. Hoback.
We now go to Mr. Sarai for four minutes.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you, Chair.
My question will go to Dr. Papazian.
If you could elaborate on what the European Union actually ruled on or what they came up with in their findings and recommendations to resolve the conflict, that would be helpful. Just briefly, what do you think is positive in that and what needs more work?
Researcher in political science, Lecturer at Sciences Po, École de l'Air, As an Individual
The European Union has not made public the results of the first civilian monitoring mission that was put in place between October 2022 and December 2022. There will be a second one, but so far I haven't had access to the reports and the recommendations that were made. We're looking forward to that, but that concerns Armenia and Azerbaijan. That doesn't concern the line of contact in Artsakh. Those are two different issues. The European Union is not directly involved in any settlement regarding Nagorno-Karabakh, per se.
Liberal
Researcher in political science, Lecturer at Sciences Po, École de l'Air, As an Individual
They're involved in resolutions calling for the lifting of the blockade, and now the European Parliament is involved in a resolution that “considers that their replacement with OSCE international peacekeepers, under a UN mandate, should be negotiated urgently.” That's from yesterday or the day before. That's all very new. It's under way currently, so I cannot be more specific.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Do you see Russia's role diminishing in the region, especially in light of the Lachin corridor, or do you see it staying as the status quo?
What are your views on that?
Researcher in political science, Lecturer at Sciences Po, École de l'Air, As an Individual
So much depends on how quickly Russia weakens, and Russia is weakening very quickly. The other factor that is very important for Azerbaijan is the sooner the Russian peacekeepers get out of the way, the better. According to the tripartite statement of November 2020, the Russian peacekeepers will be there until 2025, at which point either party can ask for their removal. It's not both parties; it's either party. Azerbaijan has always made clear that it wishes for the Russian peacekeepers to go.
The year 2025 will be the maximum. Given the pace of Russia's weakening, it will probably be sooner than that.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
How have the humanitarian assessments been in that corridor? Have goods been moving back and forth with respect to humanitarian needs, particularly in terms of food and shelter requirements, or have they been disrupted as well?
Researcher in political science, Lecturer at Sciences Po, École de l'Air, As an Individual
On this question, Mr. Sarai, I think my colleagues from Artsakh are so much better placed than I am.
Co-President, Armenian National Committee of Canada
No. She meant the people on the next panel.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
They're on the next panel. Fair enough.
In the November 2020 ceasefire agreement, or the trilateral agreement, it stipulated that the Lachin corridor remains under the control of peacekeeping contingent of the Russian Federation, and that Azerbaijan will guarantee the security of the movement of citizens, vehicles and goods in both directions.
Do you think Russia has been upholding that responsibility, or because of their own...? I know Ms. Papazian has said that....
Mr. Mirakian, do you think they have been holding that agreement, or do you think they are also lacking, as Ms. Papazian has said?
Co-President, Armenian National Committee of Canada
My personal view is that there was a period when movement was relatively unimpeded. There were still problems. There were still periods in the past during which gas and electricity were cut off. There were still temporary blockades from time to time. People were subject to searches by Azerbaijani government officials who were on the road. They weren't supposed to be doing them, but they were still happening.
However, for the most part, we can say this is a place where traffic had always moved poorly because of geopolitical considerations, for a long period of time, so it wasn't particularly that bad. Obviously, come December 12, 2022, we had a complete cessation of movement along the road. It was good and then it was bad.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you.
Thank you, Chair. I think that's all. I think I'm out of time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much, Mr. Sarai.
We next go to Mr. Bergeron.
You have two minutes. I would ask that you remain within the two-minute limit, because with the last question, you went considerably over. Thank you.
It's over to you, Mr. Bergeron.
Bloc
Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Montarville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As soon as the Lachin corridor blockade was set up, the Canadian government responded quickly by saying it wanted to monitor the situation closely, and called on the Azerbaijani authorities to reopen the corridor and ensure freedom of movement. The U.S. government did the same at the start, as did the European Union and France.
Do you feel that these governments did it to ease their conscience, but lost interest in the situation afterwards?
What do you think accounts for their silence since then?
Co-President, Armenian National Committee of Canada
I'm sorry. Was that question to me?
Bloc
Researcher in political science, Lecturer at Sciences Po, École de l'Air, As an Individual
May I answer it?
Researcher in political science, Lecturer at Sciences Po, École de l'Air, As an Individual
I don't think they are moving on to other matters. I think, on the contrary, that things have been happening bit by bit since November 2020, but especially since September 2022, actually. Azerbaijan launched a major offensive against Armenia in September 2022. It lasted only three days, but during this offensive, Azerbaijan took strategic positions on Armenian territory. We are talking about several tens of square kilometres.
I believe that this event gradually made the international community aware of what kind of state Azerbaijan was and how it behaved in settling its disputes with its neighbour. Instead of using diplomacy, it constantly resorts to armed violence. The 44‑day war, which I was going to say went completely unnoticed, took place in the middle of the pandemic. People had other things to worry about.
Now, I believe that here, on the contrary, something has begun and we have to keep working on it. We have to make the world more aware of what is happening in this region of Artsakh. If things continue like this, people who have lived in this region for countless centuries may soon be forced to either leave or die there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you, Ms. Papazian.
Now we go to our last question.
Madam McPherson, you have two minutes.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for providing this information for us today. It has been very helpful for us to get a better understanding of what is happening in the corridor.
I want to follow up on some of my colleagues' questions on the role that Russia is playing in this conflict. We've talked a little bit about how, obviously, Russia is very occupied with Ukraine right now with their illegal invasion there. We know they have an important role as peacekeepers and are currently being described by the Azerbaijan media as “occupiers”. I'm just wondering if both of you could comment briefly on what impact you feel Russia's invasion of Ukraine has had on its peacekeeping role in the Nagorno-Karabakh and Lachin regions specifically.