Foreign Affairs Committee on Jan. 25th, 2023

[Shahen Mirakian]

Obviously, as we've heard, there's been a waning of Russian influence beyond its own borders in a large part of the world, whether it's here or in Syria or whatever. Obviously they have less ability to project force, or less desire to project force, and more need to have allies and to keep people happy and things of this sort.

Obviously it's very hard to look at the Russians as occupiers when a trilateral statement was made in which they agreed to have Russian peacekeepers there. I should also add that, as part of that trilateral statement, there was an agreement to have a peacekeeping monitoring centre that had Turkish troops in it. I don't see the Azerbaijanis referring to those Turkish troops, who are at that monitoring centre, again far away from the line of contact but still there, as occupiers of Azerbaijan either. Obviously there's some moral judgment being made as to what the role of the Russians is and what they're doing there.

You can portray the Russians as bad, not that they need any help, but if they portray them as the bad guys and somehow for their consumption they're occupiers, they're hoping to get a better result from what they're doing, so I think there's part of that happening.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Papazian, do you have anything to add very quickly? I'm sorry that I haven't left you with much time.

[Dr. Taline Papazian]

That's not a problem.

The Russian peacekeepers have always had a major problem, which is that they don't have a mandate. Azerbaijan has always refused to sign a mandate. There is a declaration. They have signed the declaration providing for the peacekeepers, but there is no mandate. Therefore, the Russian peacekeepers don't really know what they can do and what they cannot do.

Since the war in Ukraine, the question is in a way less relevant because Azerbaijan has become so much more important. Even for the issue in Artsakh or the relations with Armenia, Russian peacekeepers have fewer incentives and less capability to really intervene and sort of go beyond the mandate, which they don't have, in order to protect the lives of people. We know what value human life has for Russia, so....

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Ms. McPherson.

On that note, I would really like to thank, on behalf of the entire committee, Mr. Mirakian.

It was good to have you back, sir.

Ms. Papazian, thank you very much for your testimony.

Obviously, we appreciate full well your concern that the international community remain focused and engaged as these developments occur. I should say that your emotions were quite palpable but obviously quite understandable.

Thank you very much for your testimony.

We will now suspend for three minutes so we can switch to the next panel.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Colleagues, welcome back to the second panel for our study on the current situation between Azerbaijan and Armenia, and more specifically with respect to Lachin road. In this hour, we have two witnesses who will be joining us: Mr. Robert Avetisyan and Mr. Gegham Stepanyan.

Thank you, gentlemen. Welcome.

We will start with Mr. Avetisyan.

You have five minutes for your opening remarks, sir. Once you only have 30 seconds remaining, I will raise a red sign. Could you kindly ensure that you wrap it up within 30 seconds of seeing the sign?

Mr. Avetisyan, the floor is yours. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Robert Avetisyan, As an Individual]

Thank you.

Honourable Chair and distinguished members of the committee, I thank you for this opportunity to appear in this case of the blockading by Azerbaijan against Nagorno-Karabakh, where Armenians, indigenous Armenians, have been calling for relief from the blockading of Artsakh.

On December 12 of last year, a group of Azerbaijanis blocked the only road connecting Artsakh with Armenia and the world. For 45 days, the lives of an estimated 120,000 people have been severely worsening. Children and adult medical patients remain in critical condition and are suffering in hospitals from a lack of supplies and treatment outside the republic. People have died as a result.

Grocery shops and markets are almost empty. The Red Cross and the peacekeepers supply a fraction of the required products and medicines. A shortage of food has led to the closure of schools and other educational institutions across the area. To elevate the suffering, the Aliyev regime has cut the supply of natural gas and sabotaged and blocked the repair of high-voltage power lines, which provide much of our electricity.

This is a humanitarian crisis caused not by an economic downturn, a global pandemic or a natural disaster. This is, rather, a political disaster. Aliyev wants to decide who can live and who must have death. It is a political disaster if, in the 21st century, we witness medieval cruelty by a repressive regime toward people whose only crime is the desire to live in freedom, democracy and dignity.

The blockade is carried out under the guise of an environmental protest. Now, the regime in Azerbaijan is regularly criticized by human rights organizations for the brutal suppression of the freedom of assembly. Additionally, international environmental agencies confirm that Azerbaijan, especially its Caspian shore, suffers from massive areas of contamination from petrochemicals and other life-threatening pollutants, yet representatives of the same country will appear and try to persuade this committee and the Canadian public that a group of activists took the liberty of closing the road in a demand for environmental accountability. Predictably, they will voice allegations of misusing the road and will even argue that there is no blockade, yet it would—

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair. The interpreters are having a hard time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Ms. Romanado—

[An hon. member]

Could we ask that he slow down?

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Avetisyan, could I ask you to kindly slow down for the interpreters so that they can interpret in a timely fashion? Given that I did interrupt you, I will give you 30 additional seconds for your opening remarks.

Thank you.

[Robert Avetisyan]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Predictably, they will voice allegations of misusing the road and even argue that there is no blockade, yet it would contradict the reality and the conclusions by democracies around the world and major political and human rights organizations.

This committee, the Canadian government and the public deserve facts, not propaganda. The fact is that this is a humanitarian and political blockade by Azerbaijan that threatens catastrophic consequences for 120,000 people. The fact is that Aliyev denies control over the blockade and at the same time openly declares, “For whoever does not want to become our citizen, the road is not closed.... They can leave.” This is a sign of a looming ethnic cleansing that cannot be ignored.

Finally, the fact is that Baku has expanded its initial list of demands, openly committing to the starvation of our people should we continue to pursue our democratic aspirations. The blockade of Artsakh has a clear genocidal intent. It masterminds that indigenous Armenians have two choices: either to leave their historic homeland or to stay and die from starvation, cold or diseases. Paraphrasing the words of a renowned diplomat, Azerbaijan never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace in the South Caucasus. Expansionism and ancient Armenian hatred still dominate its politics toward our people. The autocracy continues attacks against Artsakh and Armenia and constantly attempts to reinforce its stance and political image using benefits from exporting its main items: oil and corruption.

As Artsakh continues to struggle to protect its fledgling democracy, people resist and defend their right to live as a free and sovereign nation. We should not be alone in this fight, and we are not. We see who is ready to help during this struggle—our compatriots around the globe, including in Canada—and to inform their politicians about this crime against humanity. We've received with gratitude the statements by honourable members, as well as Minister of Foreign Affairs Joly and many others, calling for an end the blockade, yet we know that best intentions do not prevent the worst outcomes

We hope that concrete actions, including economic and political sanctions against Aliyev's regime, as well as humanitarian involvement through airlifts and other means, will ease the suffering of our people, help us overcome the current crisis and protect our inalienable rights and liberties.

Canadian Prime Minister Mackenzie King once said that it is what we prevent, rather than what we do, that counts most. We in Artsakh share with Canadians unconditional love towards our homeland, our rights and our freedoms. Let us unite in efforts to prevent another genocide against Armenians and to protect our shared world view, which rejects aggression, intolerance and hatred in any form or manifestation.

Honourable Chair and distinguished members of the committee, I thank you for your attention and look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Avetisyan.

We'll now go to Mr. Stepanyan.

Mr. Stepanyan, I should say that we've been warned by the technical members of staff that they are detecting a bit of a connectivity challenge. It's not a question of your mike, but connectivity. We will give this a shot and hopefully members will hear you, but we'll have to see how it proceeds.

Mr. Stepanyan, you have five minutes, sir.

[Gegham Stepanyan, As an Individual]

Thank you very much.

Honourable Chair and distinguished members of the committee, I express my deep gratitude to you for caring about the fate of 120,000 people living in Nagorno-Karabakh and for holding today's meeting to learn about the dire situation on the ground.

I thank you for this opportunity to appear before the committee as the human rights ombudsman of the Republic of Artsakh, internationally known as Nagorno-Karabakh, and to inform you of the consequences of humanitarian—

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

I am sorry, but the interpreters tell us that the sound quality is not good enough.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Stepanyan, I'm afraid we're still faced with the same challenge of connectivity. Given these challenges, it's very difficult for the interpreters to do their job. As you know, we previously asked for your remarks to be submitted to assist them, but that was not possible in your case. We're going to have to go without your opening remarks.

We can no longer hear from you, I'm afraid.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Chair, could we ask the witness to submit his remarks in writing, so that they can be considered in our study?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

That's a good point, Mr. Oliphant.

[Gegham Stepanyan]

I can definitely send my remarks, but yesterday I passed the test and everything was okay with my connectivity. I do not understand the problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

That is what I have been advised by the clerk and the technical assistants here. Since you connected today, they have been detecting it. That is why I tried to flag it for your attention before you took the floor. They are maintaining that the challenge is still there.

Go ahead, Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to say two things to follow up on what Mr. Oliphant just said.

First, Mr. Stepanyan may be able to reconnect during the course of the meeting, so that reception will be better.

I would suggest he then stay with us and we can ask him questions. If the connection is still as bad as it was, he can send us his answers in writing. We could then benefit from his insights as we move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Absolutely. It's a very good point, Mr. Bergeron.

Mr. Stepanyan, we are advised that this is an on-and-off challenge that we're having with connectivity with you. We would be grateful if you could kindly submit your opening remarks. Also, in the event you can hear us, you can certainly remain with us for the hour. If you have any reflections with respect to the questions that have been asked, please feel free to comment on any of the questions that are raised here as well.

Thank you. You have our apologies for this, but we have very little control over it.

I've just been advised by the clerk, Mr. Stepanyan.... We really want to have the benefit of hearing from you. Let's give this one more shot. If you turn off your video link, maybe that will improve your connectivity and we will have an easier time hearing you.

Could you kindly do that and then resume your opening remarks from where you dropped off?

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I'm wondering, bearing in mind his connectivity issues, if he could make sure he speaks more slowly. That might help the interpreters also.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Stepanyan, perhaps you could kindly speak slowly, turn off your video feed and speak into the mike. We certainly hope we can proceed with your opening remarks. Let's give it another shot.