Foreign Affairs Committee on Jan. 25th, 2023

[Gegham Stepanyan]

Thank you very much for the question. It is really a very good and very important question.

In order to make such statements, one should put all the facts we face on the ground. After the establishment of the ceasefire, people were killed by Azerbaijanis. Eighty people were killed. Among them were three civilians, who were killed just because they were doing agricultural work on their land.

Azerbaijan was using all methods to intimidate the population of Nagorno-Karabakh or Artsakh—using loudspeakers, urging civilians to leave their homes, otherwise threatening through the use of war, disrupting the normal functioning of infrastructure, obstructing agriculture—everything that would create unbearable living conditions and also push the people of Artsakh to come to the conclusion that it was no longer possible to live in Artsakh and they should just leave the territory.

While the whole world is pulling for the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, the president of Azerbaijan insists that there is no Nagorno-Karabakh, which means he is even refusing to accept that the territory has been called Nagorno-Karabakh for centuries and that it is still called Nagorno-Karabakh. They are demonstrating their intentions, their goal to implement ethnic cleansing and destroy everything that has been connected with Artsakh, with Nagorno-Karabakh, for centuries.

Coming to your second question, no, I have been stuck in Yerevan since December 12, 2022. I am unable to go back to my home to join my family. I am working from Yerevan. My partner is in Stepanakert in Artsakh.

I am receiving information, facts. We are implementing a fact-finding mission there, and I am receiving information from my office and trying to present it to the international community.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

President Aliyev—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have 15 seconds, Mr. Bergeron.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

I'll come back to this a little later, Mr. Stepanyan, but the question I'm about to ask you in a few minutes is about a statement by President Aliyev, who said that up to 400 Russian trucks passed along the road.

President Aliyev said that they were not protesting, that their aim was not the blockade. This bears witness to an orchestrated blockade or at least to orchestrated action by the government.

I would like to know what you think these 400 or so trucks contain. You could also confirm whether they actually transited through the Lachin corridor.

We'll talk about that later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Stepanyan, could you answer in less than 30 seconds, please?

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Montarville, QC]

We might come back to this question later on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Sure.

[Gegham Stepanyan]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Is that a question for me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes, it was for you, Mr. Stepanyan.

[Gegham Stepanyan]

Okay.

Speaking about the arguments of the Azerbaijani side and President Aliyev about the traffic in the Lachin corridor, I can say that the Azerbaijani propaganda machine led by Aliyev is trying to show that the corridor is not closed. They present the numbers of how many cars have passed through the Lachin corridor since the beginning of the blockade. In one matter, they are honest and do not hide that during this period only Russian peacekeepers and Red Cross vehicles pass through the Lachin corridor.

I would like to present for your attention some statistical data on how many cars and how many people passed through the Lachin corridor daily before the blockade. There was an average of 454 vehicles daily, which for 45 days is equal to 70,600 vehicles, and more than 1,200 people daily were using the Lachin corridor—around 53,000 in 44 days.

Even the fact that patients in extreme condition are transported from Artsakh to Armenia accompanied by the Red Cross and the facts that very few humanitarian goods are brought to Artsakh accompanied by the Red Cross or Russian peacekeepers already speak to the fact that the corridor is closed. Free and safe traffic is impossible through the corridor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.

We now go to Ms. McPherson.

You have five minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For both of the witnesses, thank you for being here with us and for sharing this information. It's very important for the committee to hear this.

I would start with Mr. Avetisyan, who is the representative in Washington. I'd like to get a bit more information from you about the U.S. position on this crisis.

We have heard that Antony Blinken has spoken on this and has urged the immediate reopening of the corridor to commercial traffic. He underscored that the risk of a humanitarian crisis in the Lachin corridor undermines prospects for peace between Armenia and Azerbaijan. I'm just wondering if you could comment on what you're hearing from the U.S. government and how they've offered to help.

[Robert Avetisyan]

Thank you.

Yes. Since day one, we have reached out, and when I say “we”, it is of course our office and all the organizations that have been actively involved in our cause and in supporting our interests in the U.S. and across the world. We—and the embassy of Armenia, of course—have reached out to both branches, the executive and the legislative, to inform them about the facts of the blockade and to ask for a level of pressure that would be sufficient for Azerbaijan to lift the blockade and to establish humanitarian action.

From the executive, you're completely right. We have heard many statements from top political levels, including the State Department, USAID and the Office of the President. The spokespersons of these bodies have referred to this question on various occasions and the demand is clear: to open the road, to lift the blockade and to ensure unimpeded access for people, for goods and for everything that it was used for.

On the legislative side, we also have seen the very active involvement of the congressional groups that care about Artsakh and care about the human rights. You don't have to be pro-Armenian to care about this issue. You have to be pro-human and against aggression.

We have seen various members of the parliament reaching out to their authorities and to the executive authorities with a demand to take concrete action and to make sure that the voice of the U.S. is heard in Azerbaijan in a proper manner, because you probably also know that the U.S. is one of the countries that has been dealing with our situation since 1992 as one of the co-chairs of the OSCE group, along with France and Russia. There is a level of responsibility in any major capital, which, again, is rejecting aggression, rejecting genocide and is pro-peace, just like your colleague mentioned. That's pretty much the same agenda as ours.

We're very pleased that this agenda is absolutely shared by the Armenian sites in Armenia, in Artsakh and in the international community—the U.S., Russia, France and all the democracies, like Canada, I'm sure. The only site, the only country, that is opposing this is Azerbaijan. Of course, they're using their political resources—also, Turkey and paid lobbyists and everything.

Yes, we have seen it, but unfortunately we expect that the level will be deficient to lift the blockade. As of now, it did not go there, but we feel that this is a question in the focus of the U.S. authorities. We'll make sure that they continue to receive up-to-date information and will keep the pressure on. This is a global issue. This is not only an issue of the 120,000. This is a civilizational issue.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much for that information. That provides some clarity for us.

My next question is for Mr. Stepanyan, as the human rights representative. I do hear what you're telling us about what's happening on the ground. It is horrifying, of course, to hear that 30,000 children are not able to attend school and to hear about the food rationing and the lack of medical care.

Canada has a feminist government. We talk a lot about having a feminist foreign policy. We certainly have a feminist international assistance policy. I'm wondering if you could describe what the gendered impacts have been of the blockade and how women are experiencing this humanitarian crisis in the region differently from men.

[Gegham Stepanyan]

The entire population is facing the same problems in terms of the availability of food, medication and many other issues. You very rightly pointed out that in this situation the rights of women should also be very clearly observed and monitored to ensure the proper realization of their rights.

I can say that my office is getting alarms from women, in that they cannot find necessary hygiene supplies. Mothers are saying that they are unable to find hygiene products for their children to organize necessary care for them.

I mean, the total blockade and the total humanitarian catastrophe, first of all, hits those who, especially in the context of conflict, are in very vulnerable groups and, of course, women in Nagorno-Karabakh, in Artsakh, are facing all the shortcomings and all the problems that women in general face in conflict zones.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I think that's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Ms. McPherson.

We now go to the second round. Each member has three minutes.

Yes, Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

On a point of order, could I ask about our timing on this? I thought the meeting was to be until one o'clock.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes. We will be finishing up in nine minutes, because each member has three minutes.

We will first go to Mr. Epp.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt, but that would be 12 minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

No. You and Mr. Bergeron have a minute and a half each.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay. Thank you for that clarity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Mr. Epp, you have three minutes, sir.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for bringing testimony to the horrific situation on the ground. I will be splitting my time with my colleague Mr. Dalton.

Very quickly, Mr. Avetisyan, the acceptance of the Russian peacekeepers is not held by all parties. From your perspective, who, if anyone, should be stepping in to protect the peace and protect that corridor? What would be your recommendation to the international community for a peacekeeping force that would be acceptable to all parties in this dispute?

[Robert Avetisyan]

Thank you.

That's a very interesting question. I think in certain situations, even if that peacekeeping force is not suitable for the aggressor, that should be disregarded. We expect a much larger international involvement in this within the OSCE and within the United Nations on a bilateral level, which will make sure that we have a sufficient number of peacekeepers with a clear international mandate. That will already be a deterring factor for the other side, in our case for Azerbaijan—that any opposition or any attempt to breach the assumed obligations will face strong international opposition and international punishment, if you wish.

We need a larger number of peacekeepers. We need a clear international mandate. We're open to co-operation with any international structure or government willing to step up and make our security guarantees much more sustainable and much more predictable.