Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 9th, 2023

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Do you know of any other instances when Canada has sent a diplomatic mission, for example, to help strengthen discussions between various political or union entities and protesters?

[Michael Grant]

Do you mean in Peru?

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

No, elsewhere.

[Michael Grant]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other instances.

We feel it's important to have a dialogue, not only with the government, but also with society. That's exactly what the ambassador and his colleagues are doing.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Of course.

La paix des braves, a 2002 agreement between the Government of Quebec and an indigenous nation, is a fine example. Moreover, that example is being followed in many countries and it shows it is possible to have nation-to-nation relationships. An agreement of this kind could be useful in the discussions taking place in Peru, as racial tensions are running high.

Do you feel a diplomatic mission with people who can help establish a constructive dialogue could be helpful in this situation?

[Michael Grant]

In terms of discussions, I believe that the Canadian experience has served as an example several times.

You asked me a hypothetical question, but I do think it's possible. However, it's hard to answer it if we don't know all the details. In any event, sharing the Canadian experience is always helpful.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

If you don't mind, I must insist, Mr. Grant.

Aside from the work done by Ambassador Marcotte, do you feel that an official diplomatic mission would be helpful, especially in the next few days, which will be crucial?

[Michael Grant]

The ambassador, the minister and I are already in contact with the Peruvian government. We're not only in contact with Peru, but also with its neighbours and our neighbours in this hemisphere. We're moving to resolve this crisis diplomatically.

[Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Now we come to Ms. McPherson.

You have four minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank you all for being here today to share your expertise with us.

One thing I wanted to flag in some of the previous testimony we've heard today from you.... Of course, governance is one of the pillars within the feminist international assistance policy. I do want to say, from my perspective, civil society organizations are amongst the best at providing outcomes that provide for better governance. I do want to flag that I think it is important we continue to fund civil society groups that do this very important work. It is, of course, one of the key six pillars of our feminist international assistance policy.

I've been speaking to folks from Amnesty International, the Americas Policy Group and many different civil society organizations. They, of course, are raising serious concerns about the violence that is happening in Peru. I know that they've written to the department and they have not heard back from the department, which I would like to flag. It appears to often be a concern that civil society groups are not responded to, so I would just like to flag that for you.

Their partners in Peru have described serious and violent repression by Peruvian authorities, including indiscriminate attacks on protesters, journalists and human rights defenders. Of course, I'm deeply concerned. I think we all are deeply concerned about how that is impacting vulnerable Peruvians like miners, like indigenous people, like rural communities.

We do know that in the past few years Canada has issued no less than six export permits for arms to Peru, including automatic weapons, chemical or biological toxic agents and riot control armoured or protective equipment. Given the clearly violent repression of protesters by Peruvian authorities, will the minister refuse to sign any further permits for Peru and cancel any existing permits? Can you tell me how many of these permits are ongoing?

[Michael Grant]

What I can say is that Canada and Peru over the last years and decades have had a robust relationship, including defence-to-defence relations.

In terms of the specific export permits that you referenced, I don't have that information with me right here. I would just note that I'm not the the official responsible for export permits. Although, of course, my branch would be consulted on any export permits, we don't know of any processes currently under way where we're being asked for our views on export permits.

I can simply say that I do know that, any time there is an export permit, the current situation on the ground, relations with countries, will be taken on board. In terms of the specifics, I don't have that at my fingertips.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You could ask your colleagues within Global Affairs Canada to provide some information on how we are adhering to the Arms Trade Treaty and whether or not those are being evaluated considering the deteriorating human rights conditions in Peru right now.

You did speak about the conversation that Minister Joly had on January 17. In the letter the Americas Policy Group has written, they asked Canada to urge Peruvian authorities to “deploy all available resources to resolve the conflict through dialogue, listening to all voices, without discrimination”. How is Canada responding to this call?

[Michael Grant]

Since the onset of the crisis that Peru is currently facing—and certainly when there have been events where violence has occurred—we've made it absolutely clear to Peru that they have a responsibility to ensure that their security forces are not using excessive force and that any allegations that have been made need to be investigated.

We were pleased that the Government of Peru has welcomed the involvement of the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights as well as the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. We believe that the work of those two organizations needs to proceed. Any allegations that have been made need to see a result, they need to see a conclusion.

We have repeatedly said this to Peruvian authorities, not only during Minister Joly's call with her counterpart but also through our ambassador to the minister, to the president and repeatedly to other senior officials.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

I would urge you to also provide that information—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm afraid you're out of time, Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

—and that support to the civil society communities in Canada that are raising these concerns with you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We now move to the second round. First up is Mr. Genuis.

Mr. Genuis, you have three minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Just briefly, I want to read a notice of motion. It reads:

That the committee undertake a study of the conduct of McKinsey & Company internationally and of the implications of the Government of Canada’s contracts with McKinsey for our foreign policy.

I want to signal to the committee that, given the extent to which the house has been seized with this issue, I do intend to move this motion as soon as possible.

I'll turn the balance of my time over to Mr. Epp.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've heard many calls for support for Peruvian institutions, institutions of democracy.

As this happens to be International Development Week, we've met with numerous organizations. Their concerns are that, while many multilateral organizations do good work, sometimes our Canadian institutions are not given the proper amount of attention. Similarly, right here in Ottawa, we have the parliamentary democracy organization, which seems to be an excellent vehicle to respond to the calls that we're hearing both from the testimony today and from the Peruvian....

Can you talk about the level of funding? As I understand it, there's a danger of its being closed. Could other funding be redirected for multilateral organizations to fund our very own?

[Michael Grant]

Mr. Chair, can I get a clarification?

Are you speaking of funding to...?

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

It's support for the parliamentary democracy organization based here in Ottawa.

[Michael Grant]

I see.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

It's the Parliamentary Centre.

[Michael Grant]

Thank you.

The funding of that organization that Global Affairs would manage is not part of my portfolio.

In terms of support to Peruvian institutions, it is something that has been included in our assistance over the years. I mentioned earlier there's a regional project that ParlAmericas has undertaken that includes Peru, which we think is vitally important.

When it comes to our development program in Peru, it is something we constantly look at in terms of planning for future years. As the situation on the ground changes, we need to adjust our funding. I think that's something we're doing right now to see if we need to move more funding into that institutional capacity-building space.

Our commitment to Peru has been very strong and will continue to be, including facilitating the exchange of civil society from Canada with civil society from Peru and parliamentarians.