Foreign Affairs Committee on March 21st, 2023

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Mr. Chong is not here, so he won't argue with me about them getting too much time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay, it's three minutes each.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Then if we need to suspend, we'll suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mrs. Kramp-Neuman, you have three minutes.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I'll pass my time to Garnett Genuis.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Genuis, you have three minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witness for being here.

I want to start with the Muskoka initiative. That was the maternal and child health initiative put forward by the previous Conservative government. I guess, in my own view, it was very successful. We had significant buy-in from countries around the world on basic health support for women and girls. It was done on a consensual basis and it was tied to real tracking of results and measurements of accountability. I think it was widely praised and recognized as a model.

I wonder whether you could share some reflections on the Muskoka initiative, its impact and what we can learn from it.

[Beth Woroniuk]

Thank you for that question.

Indeed, the Muskoka initiative was an important step forward. I think there was significant mobilization of global resources to address maternal health. One of the challenges, moving forward, was that it was rather narrow in its approach, in terms of bringing a comprehensive approach to sexual reproductive health and rights and of addressing the full range of issues.

We know women's maternal health indicators are not just addressed by the provision of health clinics and health services. We see real progress when there is movement on a broad range of SRHR issues.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

From what I understand and recall, the initiative was extremely broad. It didn't contain, maybe, the narrow focus on certain issues that some parties were pushing for, but it covered maternal and child health. It covered nutrition. It covered access to vaccinations. It covered access to vitamins and other forms of food.

From my perspective, maybe it didn't do everything—no development initiative does everything—but it really put the spotlight on the health of women and girls. We've seen some different language around some of those issues from the government in terms of the branding. It was something that was started by a Conservative government, emphasizing the importance of the health of women and girls as part of international development. I see it as being broad.

Can you maybe clarify your comments in terms of your describing it as “narrow”? I don't think that's quite fair. What do you precisely mean by that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

You have 20 seconds.

Thank you.

[Beth Woroniuk]

Partly it's that in order for women to make choices about the number of pregnancies, the timing of pregnancies and how they access health services, you also have to look at broad initiatives around gender equality and the rights of women and girls within society so that they can access those—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I think it included that, though, right? Our international development included a very broad range of initiatives around women's participation and empowerment, as well as access to health. I know that there's sort of a—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Genius, you're out of time.

Next we go to Dr. Fry. Dr. Fry, you have three minutes.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to correct the record here. Actually, the Muskoka initiative fell very short of the comprehensive things that we are talking about. It did not originally have contraception involved in it, and it absolutely banned access to safe abortion. Let's get that clear on the record.

I want to ask the witness a very important question.

I am blown away by your data that five women every day suffer from the morbidity and mortality effects of unsafe abortion. That's what we're talking about. I am blown away by that. Can you tell me what it's like in the rest of Latin America? What's the access like in the rest of Latin America?

[Beth Woroniuk]

The access to safe abortion varies across Latin America. Initially, Latin America was one of the most conservative regions in the world. What we've seen recently are changes in legislation, primarily as a result of activism on the part of very brave feminists who have mobilized and carried out discussions with parliamentarians and with their communities. We are gradually seeing more and more countries opening up and seriously addressing access to safe abortion and post-abortion care.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you very much.

One of the things that I'd like you to comment on is the concept of sexual and reproductive health and rights. It's a spectrum of services; it's not one service.

What is the status of education in Latin America for adolescent youth so that they can make choices about contraception and their need to be sexually active or not? What is the status of the contraception that is available? If an abortion is desired, is oral medication available to help with abortion, or do they have to actually go to a hospital or a safe place to have it done?

[Beth Woroniuk]

There are very many differences across different countries. The organizations that we support often work with young girls and with marginalized communities to try to have discussions and improve education and access.

If you're looking for specific statistics on specific countries in terms of contraception availability, that's something that UNFPA is better able to provide, but we can help the committee access that data if it's of interest.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

It would be very important for us to have access to that data. I think it's really important. It's at the core. If you're not going to be providing safe abortion—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Dr. Fry, I'm afraid you're out of time.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'm terribly sorry about that.

We next go to Madam Larouche.

You have the floor for three minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Woroniuk, for your testimony today.

I was struck by one thing you said. You talked about freeing feminist policy. I would therefore like to hear more from you on that subject, knowing that Canada adopted a feminist international policy in 2017.

In your opinion, how would you describe a feminist international policy? By those standards, do you think Canada meets that definition?

[Beth Woroniuk]

Thank you for that question.

Absolutely, and in 2017 the Government of Canada adopted the feminist international assistance policy, which many people applauded. We certainly were among those applauding. It set out new guidance on how Canada's development assistance would be directed.

We also have been told that Canada has a feminist approach to its entire foreign policy, but we have no written document. We have no policy guidance that sets out the entire feminist approach to foreign policy. There have been several drafts of it developed, but we're still waiting on its release. It's a very important document, because it would set out feminist policy guidance not just for international development, but for trade, immigration, diplomacy and how consulate affairs work.

Without that document, diplomats and aid workers are often not aware of what their responsibilities are, and we're also not clear globally. Most recently, we've seen Germany adopt a feminist foreign policy with a clear guidance that outlines principles. There's no corresponding document from Canada, so even around the world there are many questions on what Canada's feminist foreign policy involves.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That's good, but we see that we still need to take stock. However, it is necessary to clearly define what the feminist policy is to give it a direction.

I would now like to talk about subsidies.

What can be done? How can we proceed to make sure the Equality Fund's subsidy approach attracts programs coming from local stakeholders, and that they are relevant from the point of view of women's health and their sexual and reproductive rights?

Among the recommendations you mentioned, there's the one on freeing feminist policy and investing in a more targeted way. As for subsidies, what else could be done?

[Beth Woroniuk]

Thank you for that.

I think what we've seen with the recent accountability report on health and SRHR spending is a good step forward. We now have codes within Global Affairs to track spending.

I think public accountability on what is being invested, and where, is important. I think it's also very important that the targets that have been set by the government are met. We need to see what kinds of initiatives are in the pipeline and what's being considered at Global Affairs. We need to see what some of the discussions are about.

Throughout all of that, it's really important to have a good discussion with civil society organizations on what kinds of recommendations are there for the way forward.