Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Good morning, honourable members. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting No. 6 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Pursuant to the motion adopted on January 31, the committee is meeting on the situation at the Taiwan Strait.

As always, interpretation is available through the globe icon at the bottom of your screen.

Members participating in person, please keep in mind the Board of Internal Economy guidelines for mask use and health protocols.

Please note that screenshots and screen photos are not allowed.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you're not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

I would also like to remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

Colleagues, just before we begin, procedurally there is a potential vote scheduled within the next hour. If that does happen, pursuant to Standing Order 115(5), the committee requires unanimous consent to continue once the bells have begun.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses.

We have with us today Weldon Epp, director general, North Asia;

Kevin Hamilton, director general, international security policy;

Stephen Randall, executive director, oceans, environment and aerospace law;

and Jordan Reeves, executive director, Canadian trade office in Taipei.

Thank you very much, Mr. Reeves, for joining us today.

Last, we have Mary-Catherine Speirs, executive director, trade policy and negotiations, Asia.

Colleagues, I understand that Mr. Epp will deliver the opening remarks for our panel. I will give the floor to him now for opening remarks for five minutes. We will then go into rounds of questions as usual.

Mr. Epp, please go ahead. You have the floor.

[Weldon Epp, Director General, North Asia, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, I'm pleased to be here today to respond to questions on the situation regarding Taiwan, together with colleagues from the international security bureau and legal and trade policy bureaus at GAC, as well as, of course, our head of mission in Taipei, the executive director of the Canadian trade office in Taipei, who stayed up late especially.

Since 1970, Canada has forged significant economic, cultural and people-to-people ties with Taiwan within the framework of the one China policy. Under this policy, Canada recognizes the People's Republic of China, or PRC, as the only legitimate government of China, while noting the Chinese government's position on Taiwan, but not endorsing or challenging it. This framework has allowed Canada to build unofficial but substantial ties with Taiwan based on our complementary interests, shared values and the rule of law, while maintaining diplomatic relations and pursuing our interests with the PRC.

As a modern, prosperous and democratic society, Taiwan is globally connected and has an international footprint to match. There are currently around 60,000 Canadians living in Taiwan, which makes the island the home of one of the largest Canadian diaspora communities in the world.

These direct people-to-people links are supported by daily non-stop flights and deep trade relations with two-way trade in merchandise valued at, in 2021, $10.2 billion, up 38.1% year on year. Taiwan is Canada's 15th-largest trading partner and a critical member of global supply chains, particularly for chip manufacturing and international shipping.

During the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, Taiwan was among the first to donate masks to Canada.

On issues from global health to civil aviation, Canada has always supported the effective participation of Taiwan in global discussions, where a practical imperative exists and the absence of Taiwan would harm global interests.

Despite international efforts to promote greater inclusion in international organizations such as the World Health Assembly and the International Civil Aviation Organization, Taiwan remains excluded from important discussions where its presence would benefit the international community.

In the past four months, we have observed a significant increase in military activity, including over 600 incursions into Taiwan's self-declared air defence identification zone by the PLA Air Force. Whatever the motivations, Canada believes these moves threaten regional security and serve only to push back the possibility of dialogue and co-operation across the Taiwan Strait.

For its part, Canada has communicated directly to the Chinese authorities its concerns about destabilizing military actions across the strait, while reiterating Canada's strong support for constructive efforts that contribute to peace and stability in the region.

To be clear, we remain committed to advancing our interests with Taiwan within the framework of—and I should emphasize—Canada's one China policy. Canadian engagement with Taiwan is multi-faceted and has, on its own merits, an important role to play in advancing Canadian interests. The value to our two societies goes beyond the cross-strait security question.

As our sixth-largest trading partner in the Indo-Pacific, Taiwan's economic stability matters to Canadian exporters. For instance, recognizing Taiwan's crucial position in global supply chains, Canada recently launched exploratory discussions on a possible foreign investment promotion and protection arrangement with Taiwan.

Mr. Chair, as a progressive democracy, Taiwan demonstrates that Confucian values and individual rights and freedoms, including for women, the LGBTQ community and indigenous peoples, can coexist. Canada has many other unique reasons to advance its ties with Taiwan without reference to the agenda of third parties. This long-standing approach has guided Canada's engagement with Taiwan for over five decades and will remain a cornerstone of our continued engagement in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Mr. Epp, and thank you for sticking to the time limit. In fact, you're under. I was just starting to mention to colleagues and the panel as well—I will continue to use a 30-second flashcard just to give you guidance when your time comes to an end. I think this has been helpful. Whether it's a colleague member of the committee speaking or a witness, when you see this card, please try to wrap up your remarks. The allocations are quite tightly timed and negotiated, so I'd be grateful for your adherence to them.

We will now go to our first round, which is a set of six-minute interventions by members of the committee, the first of which goes to Mr. Chong.

Mr. Chong, you have the floor for six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Joly's mandate letter instructs her to develop an Indo-Pacific strategy. I have two quick questions. When will the strategy be released, and will it be made public?

[Weldon Epp]

As you mentioned, the Indo-Pacific strategy has been identified as a policy priority for the government, both in mandate letters and in the Speech from the Throne. That policy is under development, and our advice to ministers continues to be prepared, so I'm not in a position to speak to the timelines for that at this time.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Will it be made public?

[Weldon Epp]

Again, the exact nature of the approach to communicate this both diplomatically and publicly, I can't speak to, but the anticipation is that yes, it will be.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that answer.

Last October, the Royal Canadian Navy frigate HMCS Winnipeg sailed through the Taiwan Strait alongside U.S. destroyer USS Dewey. The United States classifies these operations as freedom of navigation operations. The Canadian government does not. What does the Canadian government classify this operation as?

[Weldon Epp]

Mr. Chair, with your permission, I'd like to turn to my colleague Kevin Hamilton from our international security bureau to provide a response on that.

[Kevin Hamilton, Director General, International Security Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Mr. Chair, the United States, as the member correctly notes, conducts freedom of navigation operations throughout the world, but particularly in the Indo-Pacific region. The joint transit of the Taiwan Strait between HMCS Winnipeg and USS Dewey would not fall into the category of what the United States classifies as as FONOP, a freedom of navigation operation. Both the Dewey and the Winnipeg travelled exactly equidistant between mainland China and Taiwan, so the two vessels were in fact passing through international waters.

Different operations that the United States undertakes that are classified as FONOPs move into territories or territorial waters that are claimed, rightly or wrongly, by one country or another. That was not the case in this transit of the Taiwan Strait.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

The People's Republic of China claims much of the South China Sea as its territorial waters.

Are you suggesting that this is not the case?

[Kevin Hamilton]

It's the case that China does claim much of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. Canada does not take a position on claims by any particular country.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

We don't oppose China's claims to the South China Sea, even though the court in The Hague upheld UN law and ruled against China in respect of its claim to the South China Sea?

[Kevin Hamilton]

I would defer to my colleague, Stephen Randall, who is the director of our oceans law division, on that question.

Outside of particular claims under the court in The Hague, as you mentioned, and the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, my understanding is that we typically do not take a position on the various claims in the South China Sea.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I have more questions, but.... I'm surprised at that, because China clearly lost the case in international court, based on international law—the Convention of the Law of the Sea—with respect to its claim to the South China Sea. I'm surprised, therefore, that Canada's and the government's position is not to uphold that court ruling.

My other question has to do with President Xi and President Putin. President Xi and President Putin recently met and issued a joint statement of some 5,000 words, which some people are calling an alliance of autocracies.

What is the Government of Canada's position on this new alliance between Russia and the People's Republic of China?

[Weldon Epp]

It's a development that we are monitoring very closely. We take note of the statements released. Canada is concerned with a growing disruption to long-standing principles and practice in international law.

The Canadian government, with partners, has repeatedly spoken out, both bilaterally and through fora like the G7, whether with respect to activities by the Chinese government that break rules and norms in international law, or those of the Russian government.

The issue that the honourable member raises is one of great concern. We continue to monitor it closely.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I have a very quick question. Does the government support Taiwan's accession to the CPTPP?

[Weldon Epp]

I will turn to my colleague from our trade policy branch for that please, Mr. Chair.

[Mary-Catherine Speirs, Executive Director, Trade Policy and Negotiations, Asia, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Mr. Chair, Canada does not have a position on Taiwan's application at this time. At this time, the parties to the CPTPP are focused on the accession process for the United Kingdom. As with any accession application, Canada would need to undertake an analysis in order to properly assess the implications.

At this time, our position on any aspirant economy seeking to join the CPTPP would be guided by the best interests of Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Ms. Speirs and Mr. Chong.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Bendayan for six minutes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the officials who are here today on this important question.

I met recently with Representative Chen, who is, as you know, the representative of Taiwan here in Canada and based out of Ottawa. It is a priority of his that we conclude a foreign investment promotion and protection agreement, also known as a FIPA, with Taiwan.

On January 9, 2022, Minister Ng also spoke with Minister John Deng from Taiwan. During that meeting the two ministers agreed to begin exploratory discussions on a FIPA.

Can you perhaps elaborate and speak to this recent announcement of exploratory discussions between Canada and Taiwan?

[Weldon Epp]

Mr. Chair, I'll turn to my colleague, Ms. Speirs, again in a moment to speak to developments in trade policy.

I'd like to say at the top that Canada has a very robust relationship and strong interest in promoting more integration of our trade relationship with Taiwan. Taiwan plays an incredibly important role in global supply chains, not least in the tech sector. One of the largest Canadian investments in Asia is in Taiwan. We've seen increased investments into Canada, not least through the work of Mr. Reeves here, but also thanks to Mr. Chen. We look forward to pursuing exploratories that might identify ways to strengthen those two-way relationships.

Ms. Speirs can speak to the next steps and the process.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Speirs, perhaps you can focus on the timeline for the FIPA, in that case.

[Mary-Catherine Speirs]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, Canada is presently pursuing exploratory discussions as a first step towards potential negotiations for a foreign investment promotion and protection arrangement with Taiwan. There are exploratory discussions scheduled in February and March. They are a first step in assessing our levels of ambition and whether we are in a position to recommend moving to formal negotiations.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Picking up on a question from my colleague, Mr. Chong, I would be interested in also hearing about something that, again, Mr. Chen raised. There is an obvious interest for Taiwan to be able to join other international organizations. ICAO was mentioned specifically. Can you provide the committee with an overview of how Canada is supporting Taiwan in this regard, particularly with respect to its interest in joining ICAO?