Evidence of meeting #60 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ukraine.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Okay. Is there unanimous consent for this subamendment?
The legislative clerk has asked for a pause. I will suspend for a minute.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
We will resume.
The legislative clerk has rightly pointed out that there were a couple of terms that were not included in the French version.
I will give the floor to the legislative clerk.
Will you kindly read us the French version of the amendment?
Legislative Clerk
Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, I will read out the entire amendment:
du Canada pris aux termes de la Convention, en particulier ses obligations au titre de l'article 5 (Assistance aux victimes) et de l'article 6 (Coopération et assistance internationales) de celle‑ci, vise à interdire l'octroi d'une aide financière et vise à res-
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much to the legislative clerk for filling in the gaps.
Now, is there unanimous consent to this subamendment?
(Subamendment agreed to)
Now we will go to the amendment itself. Is there unanimous consent for the amendment as amended?
(Amendment as amended agreed to)
Yes, there is.
Shall clause 5 carry as amended?
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Chair, let's just pause for a second here. The subsequent amendments from the government are to clause 6. Clause 5 can carry.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Yes.
(Clause 5 as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(On clause 6)
Thank you. We now move to clause 6.
Go ahead, Mr. Lawrence.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
As a point of order, I just want to make sure we don't miss this, but we have an amendment to clause 6(1), after line 11 on page 4. I don't believe that's in the package.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
We're just going to put this one on the record now. I just didn't want to move past it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Do we deal with it first, or do we deal with G-4 first?
We need two minutes. We will suspend for two minutes.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Chair, I think we have a compromise and could hammer through a couple of things in the next 90 seconds.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I don't know. Can we quickly adopt a couple of things in the next two or three minutes, or not?
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Are you guys prepared to quickly adopt a couple of things in the next two or three minutes, or are there still things we have to hash out? If we need to hash them out, we don't have time, but if—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Let's go to the ambassador. The two minutes isn't going to make a difference, but it's not a good look when you have the ambassador waiting.
It's 30 seconds to 12 o'clock noon. Given that I have been informed that the Ukrainian ambassador is waiting, we will now suspend, but before we do that, allow me once again to thank our officials for being here with us as we have gone through clause-by-clause, and also the legislative clerk for assisting us in this endeavour.
We will suspend for a couple of minutes to allow the officials to leave. Those who are on Zoom can remain connected for the upcoming session.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Welcome back, members.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, January 31, 2022, the committee resumes its study of the situation at the Russia-Ukraine border and the implications for peace and security.
It is now my great pleasure and honour to welcome back to our committee Her Excellency Madam Kovaliv, ambassador of Ukraine to Canada.
Madam Ambassador, thank you for joining us once again today. You have six minutes for your opening remarks. The floor is yours.
Her Excellency Yuliya Kovaliv Ambassador of Ukraine to Canada
Dear Mr. Chair and honourable members of Parliament, thank you for the opportunity to address you today.
In August, when I was addressing the committee, we were discussing energy security as winter was approaching. There were a lot of concerns on how we in Europe—not just in Ukraine—would get through the winter. This was really a very hard winter for Ukraine.
From October 10, Russia carried out over 33 massive missile and drone attacks on energy infrastructure, with about 70% intercepted by Ukraine. We had blackouts, massive destruction of our electricity grids, and days without power, gas and heating during the cold winter. The deadliest air strikes were on residential buildings, including in Dnipro, Kyiv and Zaporizhzhya. Over $411 billion U.S. in damage was assessed by the World Bank.
Now, though, it's spring, and we are extremely grateful for the robust support of the Canadian Parliament, the government and the people of Canada. We appreciate the strong cross-partisan stance in Parliament in supporting Ukraine through this barbaric war. Canada's support has made a difference.
A total of $450 million Canadian helped the Government of Ukraine procure gas and supply heating to Ukrainian families. Another $115 million Canadian donated to the World Bank helped us to rebuild damaged electricity grids and supply power. Five billion dollars in loans to the Ukrainian government helped us to finance pensions and social supports for IDPs and other vulnerable people.
Demining equipment donated by Canada is helping to clear our streets and fields of Russian mines. Support with other partners of the grain from Ukraine initiative secured the over 170 million tonnes of Ukrainian grain delivered to countries in the global south. NASAMS is among the most advanced air defence systems in the world, and Canada committed to supply this to Ukraine to protect our cities and to protect the lives of our people.
We are grateful to members of the committee for your steadfast support of Ukraine during more than a year of this full-scale invasion; for your political support and the adoption of the motion to name the crimes committed by Russia as a genocide against Ukrainian people; for the call to designate the Wagner Group as a terrorist organization; your recommendations in the report; and your political standing in different arenas, including the international one.
Crimes of aggression, war crimes and genocide: All of these horrific crimes require justice. Ukrainian law enforcement agencies are investigating over 80,000 war crimes, including the killing of 10,100 civilians, among them 470 children. More than 19,500 Ukrainian children were illegally deported to Russia. Unfortunately, only 328 of them were returned home. According to the evidence, they were forced to learn the Russian language and Russian-revised history, and many were filmed for Russian propaganda campaigns.
Justice for these crimes is necessary, not only for families who lost their loved ones. It will also serve the critical interest of global justice to prevent future crimes and other dictators like Putin from committing them again.
We are grateful to Canada for the important contribution to the ICC in investigating the war crimes, including those against women and children. A global arrest warrant issued by the ICC for Putin and his so-called commissioner for children's rights is a first important step on our way to justice. We value Canada's participation in the core group that is working on the establishment of a special international tribunal on the crime of aggression, which is aimed at bringing Putin and his close circle to accountability.
Russia has already strategically failed in Ukraine. It failed to take control of Kyiv as it assumed it would in the first weeks of the war. It failed to break the morale of Ukrainians during the attacks on critical infrastructure that deprived us of heat and electricity. It failed to sustain its attempts at offensive operations this year.
It failed to break unity among the partners. On the contrary, with Finland's accession to NATO and with Sweden on the way, Russian invasions strengthened the Euro-Atlantic alliance. It will be even stronger with Ukraine joining NATO, and we expect Canada's strong stance welcoming Ukraine's application to NATO. The Vilnius summit will be an important platform for this very necessary decision of the alliance.
Russia has also failed to break Ukraine’s spirit. Ninety-five per cent of Ukrainians believe there will be victory on the battlefield. According to recent polls, 87% support Ukraine joining NATO, and 87% support Ukraine joining the EU. The sanctions imposed on Russia are working and depriving Russia not only of money to wage war but also of the possibility to produce weapons on a large scale. We must increase the pressure of sanctions, including those on the nuclear sector. We need to keep strict control and prevent sanctions circumventions.
As well, frozen Russian foreign money and the money of Russian sanctioned oligarchs needs to be seized. REPO, which is the special working group on the sanctions, has already blocked 58 billion dollars' worth of Russian sanctioned assets. Next steps need to taken.
On the military side, the heaviest fighting today is around Bakhmut. Since January, Russia has been taking enormous losses in forces and heavy weapons in its attempts to capture the town. The city of 70,000 people has been almost completely destroyed by Russian bombs and artillery. It is literally a pile of rubble, but we are holding and we are fighting. Russia is constantly attacking by air, and that’s why it is crucial that we have the air defence systems and the fighter jets to protect the whole territory of Ukraine.
As of today, the length of the active front line is 1,300 kilometres. That’s roughly the length of the Canada-U.S. border along Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba combined. Our brave men and women on the front line continue to fight, including those 35,000 who have been trained by the Unifier program. I would like to thank all the Canadian instructors for their dedication in training Ukrainian forces. I would also like to thank you for your contribution to the military support that Ukraine is receiving from all the allies: Canadian Leopard tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery, artillery shells, drones and much more. This is an important investment in our victory, and also in Euro-Atlantic security.
Further counteroffensive operations will be successful, with well-equipped Ukrainian forces backed by tanks, armoured vehicles, artillery, ammunition, air defence and fighter jets. The multi-year program of military support for Ukraine in Canada and among our other allies will help to ramp up defence production and secure needed military equipment.
On a final note, I would also like to comment on another front—Russia's attempts to tackle our unity through disinformation. Unlike tanks, guns and missiles, this massive weapon is not always clearly seen. Russian disinformation campaigns not only focus on propaganda and undermining support for Ukraine but also challenge institutions, basic values and democracy itself. More often, they are meant simply to sow dissension, to divide people, because when allies are divided, it is tougher for them to forge a common resolve against an external threat. Now more than ever it is important to recognize those threats and address them.
Honourable members of Parliament, Ukraine is grateful for your leadership, your voice and your efforts to stand against the horror of a Russian full-scale invasion and all the horror it has brought to our country. We value your steadfast and cross-partisan support of Ukraine, fighting for our freedom and for democracy. There is no better way to promote our joint values today than by defending them together.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you very much, Your Excellency.
We will now go to the members for the first round of questions.
It will be for five minutes, beginning with Mr. Genuis.
The floor is yours.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Your Excellency, thank you for being here. Ukraine is not just fighting for itself; it is on the front lines of a fight for the security of the entire free world, so I want to thank you and all the people of Ukraine for your heroic courage in this fight. We must be with you for as long as it takes.
I also want to recognize, as you did, the fact that the last time you were here, we were discussing the issue of the Gazprom turbine waiver. You encouraged us to revoke that waiver. Members of all three opposition parties sought to put pressure on the government, and the government did, eventually, reverse course on that.
Thank you for the role you played in that process. I think it shows that a strong parliamentary democracy, in which opposition parties can use the tools we have to put pressure on the government to make actions match rhetoric, is certainly very important.
There are a number of themes I want to hammer through as quickly as I can. First, could you provide us with some specific information on Ukraine's military hardware needs and what else Canada could be doing in terms of supplying critically needed military hardware?
Yuliya Kovaliv
In terms of the military support, there are five or six priorities where Canada has already stepped in. However, the reality on the battlefield is that we need more. We value Canada's joining the tank coalition. We value the Leopard tanks that have been already delivered to Europe and hopefully will soon be delivered to Ukraine. It's important.
We also need artillery. Artillery is something that will definitely be needed for the counteroffensive operation, as Russia still prevails in the ability to fight.
The second thing is the air defence. Since the very first day of this full-scale invasion, Russia has had dominance in the air. You'll remember that the first message from Ukraine was, “Close the sky.” We understand now that the reality in closing the sky is to help us with the air defence. Ukraine is looking for NATO standard fighter jets. That is important to protect the cities and the infrastructure.
We went through the hard winter with massive missile attacks throughout all of the country. I would put armoured vehicles and tanks as the main priorities.
Also, I would like to stress that what is now happening with our other NATO partners includes planning for the long term. The defence stocks in many of the countries are running out. Ramping up defence production, both to increase those security challenges to our partners and also to be able to help Ukraine, requires more mid- and long-term planning. The long-term programs of support, and as a consequence also ramping up the defence sector and defence production—which also creates more jobs in these countries—are very important as we look at it strategically.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you.
The next question I want to ask is about the impact of some of the comments that the President of France is making. I've been quite concerned about those comments, especially about China and Taiwan. The unity of western nations has been critical in the last 18 months. We should stand together in defence of the international rules-based order, instead of seeing attempts to cut side deals.
Our view is that Ukraine must achieve victory on its own terms, that allies must support Ukraine for as long as necessary, and that any negotiations with the potential for concessions by Ukraine should be up to the Ukrainian people, through their democratic representatives, to deliberate and decide on, without external pressure.
I also see that asking Xi Jinping to help make peace between Russia and Ukraine makes about as much sense as it would have made to ask Hirohito to negotiate the future of Alsace-Lorraine.
I wonder if you have any comments about what Macron has been talking about in terms of China, and then also about other feelers or proposals regarding peace negotiations from other western European states.
Liberal
